VF48Hours Forum

Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

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Ratty Crack Bride rules. Beyond 48 hours etc.

Maybe most people on the forum are entrants in the competition and it's difficult to get an honest or in depth critique or discussion. Maybe I am a 48 hours resistant outsider. I tuned in to the screening room to look at entrants for the last couple of years (this years winners not being accessible yet). There are only two films in the last two years that I remember as honestly watchable, the Grand Cheval child jumping movie from last year and the Ratty Crack Bride pencil animation from this year.

The Child Jumpers, I honestly cant say how it got though my defences, but it did. Ratty crack bride I think knows its medium, was unaffected by this bizzare time constraint (48 hours !@#$%^&*), and has no flaws that compromise the core idea. And the core idea is good. It feels like a really personal, well familiarized fantasy. And it takes itself fully seriously, whereas most other entrants don't.

What is this irritating thing about Independent NZ cinema (which 48 hours is part of) where we have to treat everything with at least a faint layer of self parody/mockery or allow possible resopnse in a commedic vein. As if serious film is dead. What a joke. I blame it all on those Flight of the Concord fuckers, Eagle vs.. ..and Taika W., but it must have it's roots deeper than that.

I think people can create a little universe for themselves anyhow and anywhere they like, fiddling away while Rome burns etc, but for every action there is a reaction or an effect. There will be some new film makers who may represent the new Vincent Wards, Roger Donaldsons, Peter Jacksons of tomorrow and the environment you guys have created with 48 hours will actually hold them back. So I think there is a responsibility towards the future.

I heard some guys talking about what lies beyond 48 hours. Some of you already have your answers to that. Others don't. In case this shockingly obvious thing has not been stated. Having 48 hours to conceive, develop and execute is a bizare and extreme constraint. It's almost a formula to produce a high volume of mediocre or seriously flawed films. All of which is fine if it's a lot of fun. But I seem to witness industry professionals who are involved, who simply want to validate this, rather than help explain the broader context - help people to find what lies beyond.

Anyone who thinks that the Make My Movie idea is what lies beyond is completely wrong. The idea of film making being popularized or democratized is alreaday a notion at least half realized. Can this really be cool or subversive anymore. No, just forget about that.

You need something to encourage really high quality short films that are not basically goomed by the NZFC or anyone else. Frankly, short films that are made as compliant promos to an individuals entry into the main stream NZ industry are not of high value in the big picture at all, unless by some accident they are totally amazing films.

In conclusion. Fuck democracy (in art and film). No two things are created equal. Yes we can have "structures in place" (modern vomit speak) that allow the infusion of new ideas into the established status quo, the slow morphing of the film industry and the product it creates. But I am convinced that the real leading edge of change is always embodied by artists, most of whom may not even be positively identified right now with film medium. And this is never recognized by the incumbents, who are always too busy excusing themselves and validating the way that things are right now.

For those of you who believe that this is all taken care of, that all is as it should be...I looked over the applications process to Creative New Zealand about a year ago and most of what I read was political stuff about the Treaty of Waitangi. Should an artist be left to navigate the depths or should they be scurrying around on the surface of life negotiating the modern political concerns. Only one possible answer for me.

And I really respected Ratty Crack Bride.
Hey is Francie Murray's daughter. Well done. Hope I catch up with you to chat about it.

Cheers,
Gregg.

Reply

dmanthei
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 418

What is this irritating thing about Independent NZ cinema (which 48 hours is part of) where we have to treat everything with at least a faint layer of self parody/mockery or allow possible resopnse in a commedic vein. As if serious film is dead. What a joke.

I wish people would either open their eyes
or open their minds
or shut their mouths
because this simply is not true. At all.

There were NUMEROUS brilliant serious films in Christchurch alone this year,
and I've seen a least a handful of brilliant serious films from other cities in the Screening Room.

That all being said, it seems like your rant is otherwise just self-indulgence
as you don't really open the floor to discussion
beyond responding to your various philosophical tangents.

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Reply

Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

Hey dmanthei,

Can we start a movement where people use their real names, the ones that their moms and dads gave them. It might add some realism.

I think you are just emoting. Reacting to an unusual level of detail and disclosure. Normally the forum is full of content where the tribe afirms and congratulates itself.

Are there CHCH 48 hour film makers taking themselves seriously? I'm sure there are, I just didn't see them on taking a pass through the previews. Actually, I don't think a really serious film maker would find what I am saying offensive,

I lived in CHCH in the 80s. You could literally count the new film makers on your fingers. Nearly all of them wanted to change the world and thought their films could make a difference.

So dmanthei, what difference will your films make. That's rhetorical, and I understand, a bit aggressive or offensive, but worth thinking about.

Keep it civil, the discussion may yield something usefull.

Cheers,
Gregg

Reply

dmanthei
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 418

This is my real name
and engaging me in any meaningful way in the forum
will easily yield the decryption of my forum handle.

But it takes a willingness to engage
instead of just shouting and hoping people hear.

Your response is more of the original hyperbole.
I still don't understand what you're after by posting it in the forums
instead of a blog post or other obviously self-focused medium.

As for my films? At their current scale they're not intended to make any difference at all.
Film-making, by and large, is not a world-changing medium,
unless you're specifically approaching it with that purpose.

I do it for the fun and the challenge.
I imagine most others are in a similar boat.
One day that might change,
but it's not the destination of my current path.

2014 - Robocrop - "Pads of Passion" RomCom (Best Original Score - Christchurch)
2013 - Robocrop - "The Price of Pilsner" Horror
2012 - Robocrop - "Promises" Crime - DQed (Nominated Best DQed Film)
2011 - Robocrop - "Protocol" One Room (Crime) - LATE
Reply

Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

dmanthei,

I apologize if i have misspercieved it re your real name. most of the people opt for nicknames. Just to be clear, is that your name on your birth certificate? Or the name your friends call you? Is it normally written lower case. Again appologies If I offended re your name. I think name is quite important, it identifies us somehow. This is why I'm not really fond of the nickname trend on the internet. I really like the fact that you have to use your proper name when you join a forum like cinematography.com.

Re willingness to engage. The unguarded nature of my post is an invitation to engage. Telling people like me to shut their mouth, find their own blog etc. So...willingness to engage? There's not much willing engagement in your post. Let it simmer, maybe later.

Reply

Brendon
From: Chch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 105

Gregg,
You'll notice that dmanthei has links to three films he has made at the bottom of all his posts. He can hardly be accused of hiding behind anonymity.

As for your post. Well, I do 48hours for fun, rather than to become the next big thing. Am I doing it wrong?

TBALC / Team Moon
Reply

CraigWB
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 442

Maybe you need to clarify the point you are trying to make because all I got out of this is that you are taking a big dump on V48hours and for whatever reason think ending it would be good for short films in New Zealand.

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2006 Musical : Sardines
2005 Mockumentary : Smuggling for Dummies DQ'ed
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Searlo
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 95

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

Having 48 hours to conceive, develop and execute is a bizare and extreme constraint. It's almost a formula to produce a high volume of mediocre or seriously flawed films

No. It's a formula designed to produce a high volume of films. Some of them are bad. Some of them are amazing. Having longer to plan and execute would not (and does not) equate to better films.

One of the reasons I love this comp is because it allows people with little to no film background to give it a go alongside seasoned veterans and industry professionals. This helps expand the base of the NZ Film industry which - to me at least - is a very good thing. Not only can people with families participate (it's just a weekend) but - and this is a big one for me - schools can participate and refine their abilities whilst comparing themselves against the likes of Lens Flare, The Goodfellas, or The Outwits.

We started out as rank amateurs and can now make a reasonably decent short film that makes people laugh and smile. It has also allowed me to join up with a number of other filmmakers outside our team and help them on their films. This wouldn't have been possible without V48hours or the generous support of Ant Timpson or Steve Austin or any of the other legends who spend so much time organizing the competition.

You've clearly thought about this a lot, Gregg. It would be good to see some constructive feedback as to how you think things could and should be improved to meet the goals you want the NZ filmmaking scene to achieve.

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to CraigWB:

Maybe you need to clarify the point you are trying to make because all I got out of this is that you are taking a big dump on V48hours and for whatever reason think ending it would be good for short films in New Zealand.

Well, I did write it really fast, so it could have been all sorts of different. But it's as though you never actually read it. This take a dump thing is just nonsense. Maybe I can blame it on twitter or in-your-facebook, trends in social networking. Peoples tntellectual responses are rounded down to just a couple of lines.

Reply

videoamp1969
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 122

in reply to Searlo:

Well said Searlo

2019TIC - Tatooed Banjos-
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2019 TIC - The Thirteen-
2019 TIC - Girls-
2019 TIC - Fresh Prince of Bel Air-
2019 TIC - Round Table Productions-
2019 Editor - Nang Sun-
2018 Editor - The Reality Wizards-"Speak Up"
2018 TIC - Titanic Swim Team-"Balloon"
2018 TIC - Utopia Studios-"The Game of Life"
2018 TIC - Round Table Productions-"Death by Natural Causes"
2018 TIC - The Thirteen-"An Unfortunate Development"
2018 TIC - Tattooed Banjos-"Installing"
2018 TIC - Silver Stars-"The Black Phantom"
2017 TIC - Round Table Productions- "???"
2017
TIC - The Three Shushes- "Damsel"
2017 TIC - Lame Name- "Logan the Bogan" (3rd Audience Favourite)
2017 TIC - Pingkee and The Pitts- "Fierce"
2016 TIC - Team Wannab- "Strings Attached" (City Winner -Spirit of the Competition Award. Nominated for; Best Make Up, Best School Team)
2016
TIC - Af Rican Good Time- "Guess Who?" (2nd Audience Favourite, Nominated for, Best School Team)
2016
TIC - Abra Cadaver- "Charlie's Psychosis" (2nd Audience Favourite)
2016
TIC - The Rowing Team "Wool they wake up?"
2015 TIC - Tanfastic- "Command"
2015 TIC - The Darkest Timeline- "Walking in Pain"
2014 TIC - Vatican Daycare- "Slumber" (Audience Favourite, Nominated for;
Best Cinematography, Rialto Rising Talent, Best School Team)

2014 TIC - Proximity- "Relapse"
2014 TIC - Chookie- "The Diary of Morgan Foster"
2013 TIC - Procrasti Nation- "Joker" (City Winner - Incredibly Strange Best Bad Film)
2013 TIC - 2 Cameras 1 Film- "The Way Forward?" (Audience Favourite)
2013 TIC - Man Over The Fence- "Drama Queen"
2013 TIC - Is That Kaiapoi?!- "Inside The Mind"
2012 TIC - JK-"Lucky in Love" (National Winner - Rialto Rising Talent Award, Audience Favourite)
2012 TIC - Dividing by Zero- "Shadow in the Woods" (Nominated for City-Incredibly Strange Best Bad Film)
2012 TIC - Who Gave Us That Camera Bro- "Can You Be A SuperHero? (2nd Audience Favourite)
2012 TIC - Stickey Fingers- "Before the devil knows ur dead"
2011 TIC - Da Decepticons- "Kylie's Corner" (2nd Audience Favourite)
2011 TIC -The Filthy Ninjas- "Burden of our Memories"
Reply

mikedensem
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 346

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

Maybe I am a 48 hours resistant outsider

gregg [sic],
You’ve painted some broad semantic brushstrokes over a plethora of thoughts – but oddly, apart from the sweeps of irony [and syntactic entanglements], nothing for us to consciously grasp at.

You are obviously a film maker; let’s get some links to your efforts and then we may know where you are coming from?

--------------------
2019 - Maximum of 30 characters - The Holiday Movie:
Cabin Fever
2018 - Silence of the LAMZ - The Last day on Earth Movie: An Appointment with a Poo
2017 - (Guardian for two school teams)
-- Fart Chicken Productions - Musical (Transformation): TRANSformation
-- Kitty Aye Aye Films - Survival (Fate): Best Day Ever
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-- Fart Chicken Productions - Horror: Glitchers
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-- Fart Chicken Productions - Musical: Find a Way
-- Kitty Aye Aye Films - Mad Science: Kitty-Matic 2000
2014 - Slept through this whole year...
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2007 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Grindhouse: 'Grindhouse Day Presents'
2006 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - War/Western: 'An Unruly Patch of Land'
2005 - Team 'Imagic Mushrooms' - Pretentious Art: 'Erar Muidem'
Reply

videoamp1969
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 122

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

I read it Gregg, and it seems to me you were dumping on the V48Hours. Not good form! I don't know what you were/are trying to achieve.

2019TIC - Tatooed Banjos-
2019TIC - Kitty Gorls-
2019 TIC - The Thirteen-
2019 TIC - Girls-
2019 TIC - Fresh Prince of Bel Air-
2019 TIC - Round Table Productions-
2019 Editor - Nang Sun-
2018 Editor - The Reality Wizards-"Speak Up"
2018 TIC - Titanic Swim Team-"Balloon"
2018 TIC - Utopia Studios-"The Game of Life"
2018 TIC - Round Table Productions-"Death by Natural Causes"
2018 TIC - The Thirteen-"An Unfortunate Development"
2018 TIC - Tattooed Banjos-"Installing"
2018 TIC - Silver Stars-"The Black Phantom"
2017 TIC - Round Table Productions- "???"
2017
TIC - The Three Shushes- "Damsel"
2017 TIC - Lame Name- "Logan the Bogan" (3rd Audience Favourite)
2017 TIC - Pingkee and The Pitts- "Fierce"
2016 TIC - Team Wannab- "Strings Attached" (City Winner -Spirit of the Competition Award. Nominated for; Best Make Up, Best School Team)
2016
TIC - Af Rican Good Time- "Guess Who?" (2nd Audience Favourite, Nominated for, Best School Team)
2016
TIC - Abra Cadaver- "Charlie's Psychosis" (2nd Audience Favourite)
2016
TIC - The Rowing Team "Wool they wake up?"
2015 TIC - Tanfastic- "Command"
2015 TIC - The Darkest Timeline- "Walking in Pain"
2014 TIC - Vatican Daycare- "Slumber" (Audience Favourite, Nominated for;
Best Cinematography, Rialto Rising Talent, Best School Team)

2014 TIC - Proximity- "Relapse"
2014 TIC - Chookie- "The Diary of Morgan Foster"
2013 TIC - Procrasti Nation- "Joker" (City Winner - Incredibly Strange Best Bad Film)
2013 TIC - 2 Cameras 1 Film- "The Way Forward?" (Audience Favourite)
2013 TIC - Man Over The Fence- "Drama Queen"
2013 TIC - Is That Kaiapoi?!- "Inside The Mind"
2012 TIC - JK-"Lucky in Love" (National Winner - Rialto Rising Talent Award, Audience Favourite)
2012 TIC - Dividing by Zero- "Shadow in the Woods" (Nominated for City-Incredibly Strange Best Bad Film)
2012 TIC - Who Gave Us That Camera Bro- "Can You Be A SuperHero? (2nd Audience Favourite)
2012 TIC - Stickey Fingers- "Before the devil knows ur dead"
2011 TIC - Da Decepticons- "Kylie's Corner" (2nd Audience Favourite)
2011 TIC -The Filthy Ninjas- "Burden of our Memories"
Reply

Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

The thing i find super interesting is how quick some folk are to attack another for having an opinion. If it be valid or not.

greg being told to literally shut his mouth by someone who says film is not his destination path anyway is pretty rude in my book, however some of what Greg says is worth looking at.

Film for me is my intended destination path so I read it with an open mind.

I'm old and crusty enough to remember a time when if it was a NZ film you could pretty much lay money down it would be bleak and depressing. I used to wonder if there was actually a film maker in the country with a sense of humour at all.

creative NZ is a nightmare to deal with, no matter which box you think you're in you find you don't qualify for some reason or another and it certainly is an area that i feel needs attending to.

I think though Greg you have to take this contest out of any context concerning the wider film/short film area in NZ. It really is a stand alone thing in exactly the same way as you have to take the Around the Bays run out of any context concerning the field of athletics in NZ

kiwis can have a tendancy to swing wildly from one direction to another. someone wins a medal at rowing, suddenly everyone wants to be a rower.
film making tends to follow that same pattern someone does well with a comedy, everyone wants to write comedy. though in recent years there has been a marked look at genres both serious and comedic happening at the same time which has been good to see.

the real problem with "serious" film and by god I hate the term as comedy is a serious business as well so I'll say dramatic instead.
The biggest problem stems from the lack of money, by and large dramatic films are much more expensive to make and the amount of money floating in the kiwi pool isn't that big. However I do agree with you that the self parody is irksome to say the least. Yes it does have its place but for me it just seems like its yet another off shoot of the tall poppy syndrome but instead of someone else cutting the legs out from under you the people seem intent on doing it to themselves.

As i said, you have to take this contest into it's own context. It is stand alone and probably for most of the participants this is their one shot of having fun with a camera each year in the same way as Round the Bays runners don't enter every marathon that comes along.

For the professionals that enter I'd say it was akin to a busman's holiday for them, a chance to get out from what at times must be a very restricting and demanding business and have fun.

This conest is, or should be, a very non threatening way of someone giving it a crack with a camera and the great thing is no previous experience required.
Nothing is perfect, this contest from year to year is no different though I think those at the sharp end of things do a bloody good job.

at the end of the day if just 1 person each year who enters thinks to themselves I want this to be my life then it's a success.
There are only so many seats on the film bus in NZ and pretty much they're all taken and no bugger is going to stand up and give theirs away even to a clapped out old fart with dodgy knees like me.
V48 is a chance for everyone to have a seat on the bus for just 2 days of the year.

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Reply

Brendon
From: Chch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 105

You complain that "we have to treat everything with at least a faint layer of self parody/mockery or allow possible resopnse in a commedic vein"

Then later we get
"There will be some new film makers who may represent the new Vincent Wards, Roger Donaldsons, Peter Jacksons of tomorrow and the environment you guys have created with 48 hours will actually hold them back"

You may want to rewatch Peter Jacksons earlier films.

TBALC / Team Moon
Reply

Sam Spooner
From: Auckland
Since: May 2012
Posts: 91

I am finding it pretty easy to agree with everyone but you here Gregg. If you think films arnt "saying" enough and that the root of this "evil" has something to do with this competition then surely the best course of action would be to SHOW us a better way.

Start your own competition, make sure the genres are ones that force people to "say something" and get back to us with how well that works. To humor you I will even enter.

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Reply

Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Brendon:

You complain that "we have to treat everything with at least a faint layer of self parody/mockery or allow possible resopnse in a commedic vein"
Then later we get
"There will be some new film makers who may represent the new Vincent Wards, Roger Donaldsons, Peter Jacksons of tomorrow and the environment you guys have created with 48 hours will actually hold them back"
You may want to rewatch Peter Jacksons earlier films.

To me, Vincent Ward is a significant film artist, Roger Donaldson is a really good director who made some really neat films, Peter Jackson (sorry, I can't remember if he got knighted yet) is our great achiever. Actually a great achiever globally so I couldn't leave him out.

In spite of me holding up Peter J as a hero, I always feel he is almost single handedly responsible for the naive identification that many new film makers have with horror or splatter as a viable entry point for their career.

I don't know how well respected or understood Vincent Ward really is. I think his work is great. I just wish that some new people would identify with great things.

Cheers

Reply

Brendon
From: Chch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 105

Sure, but we can agree that PJ learned his trade making silly comedy films.

TBALC / Team Moon
Reply

dramamike
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1367

I love Shifty's comparison with 'Round the Bays'. A very apt comparison. 48 Hours is a means of getting people into film making en masse.

I am very much a part time film maker, making but one film a year. I make it in 48 hours and without this comp then I wouldn't have developed my skills at all. That is not to say they are very developed, but it gets me out of the house, making a movie, and subsequently watching a movie.

If short films are an art form that gets your juices flowing, then consider this: 48 Hours has broadened the awareness, knowledge of and engagement with the art form. Yeah, sure, the films made might not be the best of the best, but its a bloody good starting point. What other method could you envisage for getting as many people involved, making as many films, viewing as many films and reviewing and discussing them?

I personally am blown away in the extreme at the quality of some of the films produced. 48 hours is bugger all time to make a short film and the results are stunning.

Get Vincent Ward to make a film in 48 Hours and see how he goes. I'm sure it would be highly watch-able and thought provoking. But if he couldn't pay anyone then he'll be challenged to make something he is proud of.

I suspect that you posting this was partially to illicit a response, if so, mission accomplished.

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Brendon
From: Chch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 105

Ratty Crack Bride really is very good by the way. I won't disagree with you on that.

TBALC / Team Moon
Reply

Michael Bolch
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 19

In spite of me holding up Peter J as a hero, I always feel he is almost single handedly responsible for the naive identification that many new film makers have with horror or splatter as a viable entry point for their career.

To this I'd like to give my 2c worth.

Firstly, I think that this isn't just an NZ "issue", as many new filmmakers are younger filmmakers, and are naturally going to make films that are entertaining/cool/fun to them. Same as younger filmmakers making action movies, slapstick/gross-out comedies and cop films. I guess it comes with a certain level of maturity.

Secondly, horror IS a viable entry point. Horror movies are generally cheap to make, and they always have an audience, meaning there is more likelihood for the studio and filmmakers to make a profit.

Studios are going to be more willing to give a smaller budget to an unproven filmmaker making a film with a known target audience, than to give more money (as Shifty pointed out, dramatic costs more) to an unproven filmmaker to make a dramatic film, which tend to flounder at the box office more than succeed.

Thirdly, I believe it was Wes Craven who was told by the studio that he could make any film he wanted to, after he makes Scream 3 for them. The studio used it as a bargaining chip as Wes Craven was hesitant to make Scream 3, but did it in the end so that he could them make the drama "Music of the Heart". As I said, studios see horrors as cheap to make, and easier to pull a return on.

Anyway, that's my 2c worth. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong; these were just some points and cases I thought were relevant to this discussion.

2015 The Gentlemen's Agreement - "Paper Girl" (Romantic Comedy)
2014 The Gentlemen's Agreement - "Love In Reverse" (Musical)
2013 The Gentlemen's Agreement - "Photobooth" (Immobolised) [CHCH Finalist]
2012 The Gentlemen's Agreement - "The 'Wham!' Initiative" (Found Footage) [CHCH Finalist+Best Editing, Original Song, Costume Design]
2011 The Gentlemen's Agreement - "Cornchip" (Quest Movie) [CHCH Finalist+Best Editing]
Reply

antigraviddy
From: Taranaki
Since: May 2012
Posts: 23

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

Each to their own I guess.

Ignore or respond to my post, I'm not really bothered.

I'm an inexperienced first time entrant in the 48hr film competition.

Possibly don't blame modern day successes (FoC, TW) for the demise of serious film. I suggest maybe looking at John Clarke. But no need to as you claim serious film isn't dead.

Personally, I respect the names you mentioned (Ward, Jackson et al), however gaining those heights in film kudos is not my motivation for being a part of the competition.

Having 48 hours to complete the task is a challenge, it's a challenge that creates extrinsic motivation. This motivation is then entwined with the intrinsic motivation of creating something that the whole team is proud to say they have been a part of. That's all the kudos I/my team need.

I wish I could pursue film making as a career, in reality, that's not going to happen. The V48hr film fest at least gives me a taste.

Respect.

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