VF48Hours Forum

Rolanda
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 120

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Audio production for V48

I' m interested in the composition/size of sound teams in V48...is it useful to have more than one or two sound people?

What if its animation, with all sound effects and music and voice acting recorded externally?

What's likely to be most successful in a hurry... build a soundbooth, or find a quiet dead space? What if you spend Friday evening building a booth before realising your beautifully set-up "studio" shares a wall with the college's server room, and has lights that buzz, requiring you to record in the dark?

Does it help to have one audio editor putting together small exports being produced by another, into one film-length file for each of music, SFX and dialogue?

How much audio editing does the film editor usually have to/want to do?

Any discussion appreciated by one happy but dazed newbie

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veli
From: ChCh/WLG
Since: May 2011
Posts: 101

in reply to Rolanda:

good stuff Rolanda.. as for 'film sound' I guess warmness is the thing rather than cold transistors with loads of headroom.. though it always depends on the film itself.. also distortion & overdrive and perhaps heavy compressor (citizen kane) depending on what era (mics etc were different those days) your film is in.. and ambient is often overlooked..

and when it's well planned & consistent... and nothing beats real analog distortion.. but trying to source those vintage mics & amps though.. may be hard rather than some plugin things..

but it's always what the film is about and what the story needs.. for SFX ready made library that is allowed to be used is must in my view as folks who create the effects usually fine tune these for ages.. but it needs to be consistent as well.. saves time to have & know whats in the library ready to be used..

btw have a look on altiverb convolution reverb... it's magical.. you can match the scene reverb with it and other great stuff... though it's a heavy lifter plugin..

very rarely I hear well done reverb (people shoot with off-axis colored shotgun mics in echoy indoors etc) in 48hours.. reverb is usually ignored completely as key element... one great sound mixer in hollywood wanted said that the big room should sound as big... rather than mixing tight without perspectives...

and in the end.. it's the time that we got.. interesting things happen..

one soundtrack that won some awards had the annoying football fan instrument played thru reverse-reverb and back... it sounded quite good..

and what makes difference.. is the low frequencies used well.. people should edit their movies with headphones to understand that better I guess.. can add nicely into tension etc...

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Rolanda
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 120

in reply to veli:

btw have a look on altiverb convolution reverb.
will do, thanks

and what makes difference.. is the low frequencies used well.. people should edit their movies with headphones to understand that better I guess.. can add nicely into tension etc...

If I understand you correctly, I've noticed that when I'm listening. to movies, and wondered how it was done...an added tonal element, eg synth strings very soft, sometimes at least? Or an eq change on the live set recording overall? I'll listen harder next time!

re headphones btw; I give my head a rest when listening to lots of material to choose bits from, but I always use them at some point in editing/mixing. However, in music production I've been advised to mix without them, to avoid confusing the beauty you hear on phones with what the end-listener will hear, which is cruder. Usually, these days, thanks to tinny CD players, computer speakers and ipods, much, oh, so much cruder.
Does that not apply here?

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Big Kahuna
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 101

I'm curious as to whether anyone has a particular mastering process they do after mixing their sound (multiband compressor, eq setting etc...) to try and get it sounding more professional. I'm curious because when I do sound mixes it always ends up sounding a little unpolished, like I'm missing a step at the end of the mix.

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ryan
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 237

Sound is unfortunately the last thing on our list, or actually the first thing on the list - but we ignore it because we are shit at it. We usually have someone on boom and someone to mix in post productions but hardly get the time to use them. Usually we just use what the camera has recorded.

This year we decided to fuck it, and go small - cast and crew of four 'n all.

The sound duty usually fell to me or the other guy who was behind the camera. Sometimes one of the actors who wasn't on screen monitored things.

We had wireless lavs plugged into each channel of a Microtrack II, which has the worst preamps known to man.

You can tell

Our sound is shit.

My goal for this year is to find someone who is deadicated to sound, and also a field mixer with better preamps.

Was RyanM on the old forum.
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dmanthei
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 418

My lack of technical knowledge let me down this year, regarding sound.
My music man is also good at audio production in general,
so he took an export of the movie's audio track and cleaned it all up.

However, I had NO IDEA how to lay that down in place of all the other audio in FCPX.

I could have done it super easily in FCP6,
but FCPX totally bamboozled me on it
and I didn't want to risk erasing all my current audio
thanks to FCPX's lack of a "save as" sort of backup feature.

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2011 - Robocrop - "Protocol" One Room (Crime) - LATE
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CraigWB
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 422

in reply to dmanthei:

You just import the audio and lay it down underneath it on the timeline, simple. You can get rid of the original audio track by creating a compound clip and lowering the levels on that, just the same as I would in FCP 6 except with nesting instead of compound clips.
I don't know what you would have done.

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dmanthei
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 418

I don't know why I didn't think of that at the time.

I think I was going to try and throw it under everything
and then go through and silence all the bits of audio.

I don't think I've made the mental connection about compound clips yet
considering I used them all over the place in FCP6
but they're different in my head with FCPX.

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2013 - Robocrop - "The Price of Pilsner" Horror
2012 - Robocrop - "Promises" Crime - DQed (Nominated Best DQed Film)
2011 - Robocrop - "Protocol" One Room (Crime) - LATE
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Craig
Since: May 2011
Posts: 79

in reply to veli:

people shoot with off-axis colored shotgun mics

Wait, how did you know.

In out first outing with a shotgun & boom in the weekend we ended up with a lot of quiet off axis sound. I'm wondering if it might be better to put a less directional mic on the end of a stick to get it close (as I presume you did dmanthei) rather that put up with this result, especially with a part time boom operator and dialogue that switches quickly between actors... that stuff must be challenging to get on-axis even when you know what you are doing.

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zer05um
From: Auckland (ex Taranaki)
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 120

I put my hand up and admit I totally bolloxed up our sound.

:(

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treefrog
From: Dunedin, Otago
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1115

This Helped Me:

I bought a cheap laser pointer ($4) from a Chinese merchanise shop, a few feet of wire ($5) and a press-to-make switch ($3) from Jaycar.
I soldered the wires onto the laser pointer switch, fiddly but worth it, and mounted the pointer with blu-tack onto my shock mount.

With a the switch attached to the boom handle, (the wires are inside the pole) with a simple press of the switch I can accurately see where the mic is pointed and be reasonably confident that I'm collecting the best audio from the strongest source.

Genius, I think.

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Rolanda
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 120

in reply to Rolanda:

<quote>Pre-weekend I covered my zoom mics with a 2" foam block directly against them on one side, and a thinner slice on the other side (for variety) which cleaned things up a lot. It worked as far as close ambience noise was concerned.

i.e. open-cell foam; a cheap memory foam pillow to be precise, cut into slices 2-3cm thick and strapped directly over the mic area, which is protected by a small frame. The foam did reduce the signal a bit but it was worth it, at least for one of the voices, which came up strong, present and clean. The other voice still had a bit of mud around it's feet, perhaps cutting more lows in DAW would have helped? but I didn't think of it till both voices were edited into the same track so it would have been a slow job.


Or maybe I should have used more gain in recording this particular voice.

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dramamike
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1359

in reply to treefrog:

Cunning. I like cunning, especially cunning on a budget.

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dmanthei
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 418

Yeah, that's friggin brilliant.

Great idea, treefrog.

2014 - Robocrop - "Pads of Passion" RomCom (Best Original Score - Christchurch)
2013 - Robocrop - "The Price of Pilsner" Horror
2012 - Robocrop - "Promises" Crime - DQed (Nominated Best DQed Film)
2011 - Robocrop - "Protocol" One Room (Crime) - LATE
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wayne atkins
From: Auckland
Since: May 2012
Posts: 5

JuiceLinked direct to canon 7D

check out BBS "Brothers in Crime" for an example of
sennheiser 416 on boom with rycote windshield
to sound device mixPre
to JuicedLink DS214 Headphone Amp, Meter, AGC Disable direct
to canon 7D

My editors say superior to on board, not as good as Sennheiser to zoom 4hn (field recorder) but sped up editing, no synching required.

Felt good to get back to the trusty sound device, which has been collecting duct for 18 months as we used the sennhessier. zoom. flash card set up.

Will still use separate sound for short films and professional work.

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Rolanda
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 120

in reply to wayne atkins:

What is "sounddevice", what is mixPre?

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