VF48Hours Forum

Meatloaf
From: Wellington
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 72

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What Would You Change in the 48 Hours Comp?

First time starting at thread, so, bravely getting up courage, here goes.
It’s 5 or 6 PM on the Sunday and you are doing your wrap up form when you get to the “Any Feedback?” question and your first thought is: I haven’t got time for that now! Or maybe you typed in a couple on incoherent suggestions that hadn’t had much thought - they were just the things that bugged you the most at that moment in time. So what about doing it now? On reflection, what needs improvement? What ideas do you have that you think would improve the competition? Maybe the gods are watching and some things get tweaked in future events. I’ll start.

Approximate Number of Teams per Region based on Number of Heats: AK 276, HN 48, WN 240, CH 120, DN 60, Taranaki 36, Gisborne 24.
Number of Finalists per Region: 12 (so far anyway). Note to self: Next year enter via Parents address in Palmy North since chances for recognition are better in Taranaki region.
I know, it’s not about the winning or losing, its about taking part. Without having a big debate on whether the country has gone too PC in its schools (don’t get me started on that one!), or if indeed life really is about Winners and Losers in the end, the ratios by Region strike me as just wrong.

There was a point when I thought I was going to see the judges view of the top 3 in each genre then I remembered it doesn’t work that way. So should it? What if every (larger) region named their top film by genre – they don’t need to get prizes, just a certificate acknowledging that achievement would be fine in my view. I think each year some of the genres will probably not lend themselves to producing a big winner.

The Finalist-to-Competitor ratio also bugs me when I look at it now. What if for every 120 teams there were 12 nominations (one for each genre) plus 3 or 4 Wildcards (from any genre)? CH would have 15 or 16 teams from which the expectation would be that most, if not all, prize winners would come. WN would have 30 and therefore a Winner and Runner up in each genre, plus 6 Wildcards. AK would have 35-40 so could end up with 2 or 3 (or more) per genre to pick a genre winner from. DN would have 7 or 8, Taranaki would have 3, Gisborne would have 2 (OK, maybe 3 is the minimum). Doesn’t that seem more balanced? Wouldn’t that create more interest and motivation in some of the “lesser” genres? Hopefully this approach wouldn't increase the judges workload too much - its possibly already the approach they are taking in order to get down to the pool from which the winners emerge.

Also I’m not sure how some of the Team Type questions map to the possible prize set. There’s a Best School Team (yep, fair enough), is there a Best All-Chick team, Best Teen team, etc? If there isn’t, then there needs to be, otherwise remove those team types from application/wrap-up form as they serve no purpose.

I’m not looking to increase the prize pool to the point where everyone is a winner - that would be silly. But just want to question if there is a way to widen the acknowledgements to the point where more competitors feel there is a chance of being noticed and therefore encouraged to return year after year, especially when some of the same big name teams are often the ones in the winner’s circle.
Right, now that I’ve got that off my chest, I should be able to get back to sleep.

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Scotty
From: Te puke
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 133

in reply to bradomurder:

Me too:):)

If You Go Down To The Woods Today......... http://www.v48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2012/hamilton/if-you-go-down-to-the-woods-today/

9.00am BOOM! https://vimeo.com/67687469 (Contract now taken out on tech gremlins who hindered our Masterpiece. You don't mess with PONGAKAWA FILM AND MEDIA CLUB!!)
LOOK OUT for the doco on what happened next!!


Detention Room - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/

Last Ted Standing - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/
Reply

DylanReeve
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 544

in reply to tank_ass69:

I'd split the competition into two tiers. One tier for 'pro' teams and one for 'amateur.'

I've been involved in teams that would be considered 'semi pro', we have access to gear and crew who are trained in this area. Then there are other teams who are not so lucky, but I reckon the spirit of the competition is more about them.

It's such an impossible distinction though. And being a paid TV/film professional doesn't necessarily offer any advantage in 48HOURS over other teams who without industry professionals involved.

Dylan Reeve | Edit Geek
Fractured Radius | Auckland | Since 2003

2017 | Supernatural | Morgan's Time 2: Morgan's Fate
2015/2016 } I was doing other things...
2014 | Time Travel | Morgan's Time
2013 | Robot/Android/Cyborg | Incredibly Advanced Robotics
2012 | Fantasy Adventure | Tilting at Windmills
2011 | One Room (Quest) | The Office Quest
2010 | Musical/Dance | Professional Dancer
2009 | Musical/Dance | All's Fair
2008 | Drama | The End (Auckland Winner)
2007 | Crime | The Big Job
2006 | Action/Adventure | Three Heroes Against Terror (City Finalist)
2005 | Romance | Fruits of Passion
2004 | Action/Adventure | The Sceptre of MacGuffin (City Finalist)
2003 | Cop/Crime | Forensic Investigation Team
Reply

Scotty
From: Te puke
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 133

in reply to Meatloaf:

Thanks heaps for the offer. I will have a proper look at your site in weekend when i'm taking time out to have a proper look at other entries. Lock myself in my room away from people and kids until of course i go "You got to have a look at this!!" Maybe we could compare and share certificates and see which ones entrants and of course Mr Timpson like the best???

email - laurieb@pongkawa.school.nz

If You Go Down To The Woods Today......... http://www.v48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2012/hamilton/if-you-go-down-to-the-woods-today/

9.00am BOOM! https://vimeo.com/67687469 (Contract now taken out on tech gremlins who hindered our Masterpiece. You don't mess with PONGAKAWA FILM AND MEDIA CLUB!!)
LOOK OUT for the doco on what happened next!!


Detention Room - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/

Last Ted Standing - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/
Reply

Mista Teas
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 529

in reply to Andrew Todd:

Our Rising Talent nominees this year are all "grownup" teams.

Typical! The only time I haven't done my research properly and I get busted.

SCREENING NOW: End - Real Time; CHCH25s
REVISIT: The Stile - Star-crossed Lovers; ULTRA48; CHCH25s

Everything Sticks since 2008
48Hr Films 2008-2019 48Sec Films 2008-2016

Mista Teas (Stu Gilpin) NATIONAL WINNER "Best/Most Prolific Reviewer" 2011 REVIEWS ARCHIVE
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Mista Teas
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 529

in reply to Scotty:

It raises interest from ohter students/parents/public and PROMOTES the competition.

I believe the best way to promote the competition is to show other students/parents/public your FILM. Share the story/experience of how/why it was made, encourage others to enter. Help them do so.

I still think the best reward you could give your students is a DVD of the film. That's the ultmate certificate - and will last longer. (Maybe give a digital copy too just in case)

You could produce a poster, a DVD cover. Get the class to work on it. Make it meaningful, give them ownership over it. Apply SOLO taxonomy to it. Get and give feedback. Get them to talk to other schools about entering. Encourage competition yet nuture cooperation and collaboration with those other schools.That's how you PROMOTE the competition.

It's clear that I'm just not big on receiving stuff for participating - the award that everyone gets. It's actually meaningless, regardless of age. My own kids (three under 10) have a number of participation certificates - but they're always tucked under books or in the cupboard. The ones they stick up are those where they've actually achieved something.

And that's all I have to say about that.

SCREENING NOW: End - Real Time; CHCH25s
REVISIT: The Stile - Star-crossed Lovers; ULTRA48; CHCH25s

Everything Sticks since 2008
48Hr Films 2008-2019 48Sec Films 2008-2016

Mista Teas (Stu Gilpin) NATIONAL WINNER "Best/Most Prolific Reviewer" 2011 REVIEWS ARCHIVE
Reply

IctusMortem
Since: May 2012
Posts: 400

I have disliked participation certificates since I was little, though I have no idea if your class likes 'em Scotty :D . I always felt patronised by them (even though I didn't know that word back then!).
That's something that I liked about this comp when I was entering in school teams, I always felt like I was being judged equally (and didn't measure up, but hey).

Reply

ligeia
From: Whangarei
Since: May 2011
Posts: 26

I wouldn't change a thing in this competition!
I love being in the Auckland Heat - as an "out of towner" it's great to compare our films to those in Auckland. It gives us the motivation to try harder and when we won audience favourite (many many years ago) the victory was all the sweeter knowing we were amongst some of the best. Having a Whangarei heat may mean that we'd have a greater chance of winner a regional prize, but no where near as gratifying as winning in the biggest region.
Easy and Hard Genres are subjective - our best film was a result of our hardest genre, we got war or western :o( which forced us to think more creatively. RomCom would be our kryptonite.
An Amateur and Pro split would be devastating, no one wants a competition where David can't beat Goliath.

2015 - Bureaucracy is the epoxy that greases the wheels of progress Horror LIMP & REDUNDANT PRODUCTIONS
2014 - I'd prefer to forget this film
2013 - This is a Fork Musical TSUKI THE STUNT CHICKEN
2012 - Shenanigan six Crime TSUKI THE STUNT CHICKEN
2011 - Payback SuperHero TSUKI THE STUNT CHICKEN
2010 - Time Wasters Time Travel TSUKI THE STUNT CHICKEN
2009 - PostHumours Politically Incorrect TSUKI THE STUNT CHICKEN
2008 - Love over Risotto Romance LAUGHING GRAVY
2007 -Back to the Front War TSUKI THE STUNT CHICKEN (Audience Choice & Best use of line)
2006 -Stained by me Coming of Age THE DREAM COLLECTIVE (Late)
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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

An amateur pro split is totally unworkable. What do you call a team with 2 pro's' and 3 amateurs.
It would be like going back to the old Olympics, trying to police just who was and wasn't an amateur. Nah, bung us all in the same life boat and let us all squabble over who gets a seat and who gets biffed over the side.

2013 - Nimlin Productions - Full House - Obsessive Relationship Movie
2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
Reply

themorgan
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 655

in reply to DylanReeve:

It's such an impossible distinction though.

Nah. It might be tricky if you tried to do it as a top-down thing. But with the right inducements or advantages I expect people could be convinced to self-nominate for some kind of tier system.

Being doable isn't the same as being a good idea, though. There's a lot of advantages to keeping it simple.

Also, while it sometimes feels like the competition is completely dominated by just a handful of teams year after year, I've just checked and from what I can see in Auckland only two 2013 finalists were also 2012 finalists - Goodfellas and ADHDMi.

(It'd probably be a bit stinkier if you included the minor category finalists, but that's less important.)

Frauleins, oh frauleins
2019 | Frank & Beans | Buddy Movie | ULTRA48 | DQ :) | Auckland Winner: Best Disqualified Film
2018 | MUST LOVE BOTS | Anti-RomCom | ULTRA48 | Heat 4 Audience Fav, Auckland Short List, Auckland Finalist: Best Script
2017 | I am ball 2 | Survival | ULTRA48
2016 | The Littlest Punk | Punk | Auckland finalist: Best Original Song
2015 | Crumbs | RomCom, Animated | DQ & Very bad!
2014 | I am ball | Musical, Animated | Auckland finalist: Best Use of Prop
2013 | Crybaby | Race Against Time | Boring!
2012 | S.U.L.A. | Urban Legend | Puppets
2011 | Kill Therapist | Revenge | Writer, Director, Actor | Notorious
2010 | Action Manu | Biopic | Writer, Director | Boring

Fractured Radius
2009 | All's Fair | Musical/Dance | Co-Writer
2008 | The End | Drama | Co-Writer | Auckland winner
2003 | F.I.T. | Cop/Crime | Peripheral
Reply

Scotty
From: Te puke
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 133

in reply to Mista Teas:

Cheers Mista Teas

Thankyou for your comments. Everything you have suggested we did last year and will do again this year except the poster which the group (its not a class) have started doing as part of our whole school screening and hopefully a short session at the local cinema . It will also be tweaked for another school comp ( we can because it was dqed) along with the group making a documentry about their journey
I GET that.
The certificates we handed out last year are on most of their walls!

The students have voiced that they enjoy recieving certificates so that's all i've got to say about that.

Is your entry on screening room yet or has your group gone on further?? Would love to have a look.
Ours is on under Hamilton/9.00am BOOM

If You Go Down To The Woods Today......... http://www.v48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2012/hamilton/if-you-go-down-to-the-woods-today/

9.00am BOOM! https://vimeo.com/67687469 (Contract now taken out on tech gremlins who hindered our Masterpiece. You don't mess with PONGAKAWA FILM AND MEDIA CLUB!!)
LOOK OUT for the doco on what happened next!!


Detention Room - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/

Last Ted Standing - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/
Reply

CaptainHook
From: Auckland
Since: May 2012
Posts: 59

in reply to themorgan:

Also, while it sometimes feels like the competition is completely dominated by just a handful of teams year after year, I've just checked and from what I can see in Auckland only two 2013 finalists were also 2012 finalists - Goodfellas and ADHDMi.

And Del Sur. And Voltron And The Holograms last year are "Egghouse" this year (well at least Jamaine that i know of, i missed Egghouse at heats), also in the final.

Lens Flare/thedownlowconcept/Mukpuddy didn't enter this year as they're too busy making TV Shows, but highly likely they would be in the Auckland final IMHO.

Good teams are generally consistent (a part of what makes them good) and will do well most years i think.

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DylanReeve
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 544

in reply to CaptainHook:

Good teams are generally consistent (a part of what makes them good) and will do well most years i think.

Indeed, but doing well within a collection of 300+ films isn't really the guarantee of anything. Every year there are dozens of great films from unexpected and new teams.

I feel we've managed to do well pretty much every year, but it's been a long time since we found ourselves in the finals. There are always people, pro and non-pro who can consistently turn around great films (be they amazingly clever and creative, brilliantly acted or just visually stunning). There's not really a way to pre-screen those people in any useful way.

Dylan Reeve | Edit Geek
Fractured Radius | Auckland | Since 2003

2017 | Supernatural | Morgan's Time 2: Morgan's Fate
2015/2016 } I was doing other things...
2014 | Time Travel | Morgan's Time
2013 | Robot/Android/Cyborg | Incredibly Advanced Robotics
2012 | Fantasy Adventure | Tilting at Windmills
2011 | One Room (Quest) | The Office Quest
2010 | Musical/Dance | Professional Dancer
2009 | Musical/Dance | All's Fair
2008 | Drama | The End (Auckland Winner)
2007 | Crime | The Big Job
2006 | Action/Adventure | Three Heroes Against Terror (City Finalist)
2005 | Romance | Fruits of Passion
2004 | Action/Adventure | The Sceptre of MacGuffin (City Finalist)
2003 | Cop/Crime | Forensic Investigation Team
Reply

R17
From: wellington
Since: May 2013
Posts: 179

I think the 48 hour limit is a great leveller... a pro team could fall apart and a beginner team could really surprise themselves :)

Reply

CaptainHook
From: Auckland
Since: May 2012
Posts: 59

in reply to DylanReeve:

There's not really a way to pre-screen those people in any useful way.

No, wasn't trying to say that either. And by do well, i don't just mean "in the competition" but also in the sense they make good films consistently. I saw a couple of films i really liked that aren't in the auckland final (i'm interested to see if i still like them more than some that did make it!), and i still think those teams 'did well'. :)

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Scotty
From: Te puke
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 133

in reply to R17:

And we do every time:):)

If You Go Down To The Woods Today......... http://www.v48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2012/hamilton/if-you-go-down-to-the-woods-today/

9.00am BOOM! https://vimeo.com/67687469 (Contract now taken out on tech gremlins who hindered our Masterpiece. You don't mess with PONGAKAWA FILM AND MEDIA CLUB!!)
LOOK OUT for the doco on what happened next!!


Detention Room - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/

Last Ted Standing - http://www.48hours.co.nz/screening-room/2014/hamilton/detention-room/
Reply

themorgan
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 655

in reply to CaptainHook:

And Del Sur. And Voltron And The Holograms last year are "Egghouse" this year (well at least Jamaine that i know of, i missed Egghouse at heats), also in the final.

Ah, nuts, missed Del Sur 'cos I did it alphabetically and they're now called "Team Del Sur".

Frauleins, oh frauleins
2019 | Frank & Beans | Buddy Movie | ULTRA48 | DQ :) | Auckland Winner: Best Disqualified Film
2018 | MUST LOVE BOTS | Anti-RomCom | ULTRA48 | Heat 4 Audience Fav, Auckland Short List, Auckland Finalist: Best Script
2017 | I am ball 2 | Survival | ULTRA48
2016 | The Littlest Punk | Punk | Auckland finalist: Best Original Song
2015 | Crumbs | RomCom, Animated | DQ & Very bad!
2014 | I am ball | Musical, Animated | Auckland finalist: Best Use of Prop
2013 | Crybaby | Race Against Time | Boring!
2012 | S.U.L.A. | Urban Legend | Puppets
2011 | Kill Therapist | Revenge | Writer, Director, Actor | Notorious
2010 | Action Manu | Biopic | Writer, Director | Boring

Fractured Radius
2009 | All's Fair | Musical/Dance | Co-Writer
2008 | The End | Drama | Co-Writer | Auckland winner
2003 | F.I.T. | Cop/Crime | Peripheral
Reply

themorgan
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 655

in reply to DylanReeve:

There's not really a way to pre-screen those people in any useful way.

Everything is possible.

Simplest approach would be flagging previous year finalists and adding them to a special pool in following comp. So for instance in the 2014 finals, only 3 of the 2013 finalists could appear. Basically they'd get held to a higher standard, guaranteeing places for other teams (but not guaranteeing those other teams are either newcomers, or non-professional).

At the moment it's not a problem that needs a solving, but I can imagine a future where that might change.

Frauleins, oh frauleins
2019 | Frank & Beans | Buddy Movie | ULTRA48 | DQ :) | Auckland Winner: Best Disqualified Film
2018 | MUST LOVE BOTS | Anti-RomCom | ULTRA48 | Heat 4 Audience Fav, Auckland Short List, Auckland Finalist: Best Script
2017 | I am ball 2 | Survival | ULTRA48
2016 | The Littlest Punk | Punk | Auckland finalist: Best Original Song
2015 | Crumbs | RomCom, Animated | DQ & Very bad!
2014 | I am ball | Musical, Animated | Auckland finalist: Best Use of Prop
2013 | Crybaby | Race Against Time | Boring!
2012 | S.U.L.A. | Urban Legend | Puppets
2011 | Kill Therapist | Revenge | Writer, Director, Actor | Notorious
2010 | Action Manu | Biopic | Writer, Director | Boring

Fractured Radius
2009 | All's Fair | Musical/Dance | Co-Writer
2008 | The End | Drama | Co-Writer | Auckland winner
2003 | F.I.T. | Cop/Crime | Peripheral
Reply

IctusMortem
Since: May 2012
Posts: 400

D: I like it as it is, I don't want the "professional" teams filtered out. Especially since we're small enough that they don't completely dominate.

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Meatloaf
From: Wellington
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 72

------------------------------------------------------------
(that's me drawing a line under this thread).
Thanks everyone for the positive contributions. Many points got aired, explored and the tyres got a good kicking. Feel free to carry on if you've got an idea that hasn't been raised already, but there's probably better things you can spend your time on. I'll summarize the main points and conclusions then post them here in the next few hours. Cheers.

Reply

Meatloaf
From: Wellington
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 72

And the results are … on the most part “Status Quo” wins the day.

Definitely “NO” change needed in terms of:
- Regional Finalist Numbers or Genre selection for those finals
- Make up of the heats being based mostly on alphabetical Team name
- Finalist coming from anywhere in the country, with no ratio (to region)
- 7 minutes for the Duration
- Everyone in together in one completion (no tiers or team grading)
- Original Music only. 2/3rds are happy/relieved that they can use Canned Music.

A strong “YES” to:
- A tidy up of the Rules, all together in one place on the web site. Clear and succinct. Maybe put supporting discussion and examples on supplementary web pages
- Holding the comp a bit earlier in the year, when the weather usually better (if the wider NZ National “event schedule/calendar” would support this change)
- Adhering to the Genre, otherwise can’t make it into Finals (although noted that there is a degree of subjectivity in determining this)
- School Teams in their own Heat, or with other G/PG entries if not enough for a full heat, and held at an earlier time.

And now the ones where it was more of a 50/50 result:
- The Elements. Some people want to be more restricted or guided by very specific characters/props/genre’s/etc whilst others argue strongly that getting specific discourages creativity. My personal view: They have to be generic otherwise 80% of the films will be about a person tossing and turning in bed then taking drugs and roaming around at night. Oh wait … that was this year!
- Genre Trading. On the whole people are happy with the genre’s that are used and there doesn’t appear to be any particular set that are seen as more challenging than others, as it all comes down to the available skills within the team. HOWEVER there is some support for being able to swap the assigned genre (or re-draw from the 12). A penalty needs to be applied if you do this (e.g. 15 or 30 minute starting delay) and maybe Regional and National Finalist teams from recent years wouldn’t be entitled to take this option.
- Participation Certificates. On the whole people didn’t care for these, but really: it wouldn’t be that hard for 48 Hours to produce an official Year specific certificate that the Schools at least can use. It could be in the form of a mail-merge type document downloadable with information incorporated from the Wrap-Up sheet.

There were one or two votes, but no significant discussion, for:
- Don’t start Heats at 9:45pm. Way too late
- Feedback from the Judges on their picks
- Better balance of the Prize pool between National and Regional levels
- A National Best Script prize (Regional ones do already exist)
- Get a USB at launch
- Support for Schools (e.g. facilitate visits from old hands)
- People will help with organisational task, if asked or given the opportunity to volunteer.

Right, now it’s time to review some films, mow some lawns, weed some gardens and generally be less obsessed with 48 Hours stuff. Cheers, Nigel (Meatloaf)

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