VF48Hours Forum

Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

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Ratty Crack Bride rules. Beyond 48 hours etc.

Maybe most people on the forum are entrants in the competition and it's difficult to get an honest or in depth critique or discussion. Maybe I am a 48 hours resistant outsider. I tuned in to the screening room to look at entrants for the last couple of years (this years winners not being accessible yet). There are only two films in the last two years that I remember as honestly watchable, the Grand Cheval child jumping movie from last year and the Ratty Crack Bride pencil animation from this year.

The Child Jumpers, I honestly cant say how it got though my defences, but it did. Ratty crack bride I think knows its medium, was unaffected by this bizzare time constraint (48 hours !@#$%^&*), and has no flaws that compromise the core idea. And the core idea is good. It feels like a really personal, well familiarized fantasy. And it takes itself fully seriously, whereas most other entrants don't.

What is this irritating thing about Independent NZ cinema (which 48 hours is part of) where we have to treat everything with at least a faint layer of self parody/mockery or allow possible resopnse in a commedic vein. As if serious film is dead. What a joke. I blame it all on those Flight of the Concord fuckers, Eagle vs.. ..and Taika W., but it must have it's roots deeper than that.

I think people can create a little universe for themselves anyhow and anywhere they like, fiddling away while Rome burns etc, but for every action there is a reaction or an effect. There will be some new film makers who may represent the new Vincent Wards, Roger Donaldsons, Peter Jacksons of tomorrow and the environment you guys have created with 48 hours will actually hold them back. So I think there is a responsibility towards the future.

I heard some guys talking about what lies beyond 48 hours. Some of you already have your answers to that. Others don't. In case this shockingly obvious thing has not been stated. Having 48 hours to conceive, develop and execute is a bizare and extreme constraint. It's almost a formula to produce a high volume of mediocre or seriously flawed films. All of which is fine if it's a lot of fun. But I seem to witness industry professionals who are involved, who simply want to validate this, rather than help explain the broader context - help people to find what lies beyond.

Anyone who thinks that the Make My Movie idea is what lies beyond is completely wrong. The idea of film making being popularized or democratized is alreaday a notion at least half realized. Can this really be cool or subversive anymore. No, just forget about that.

You need something to encourage really high quality short films that are not basically goomed by the NZFC or anyone else. Frankly, short films that are made as compliant promos to an individuals entry into the main stream NZ industry are not of high value in the big picture at all, unless by some accident they are totally amazing films.

In conclusion. Fuck democracy (in art and film). No two things are created equal. Yes we can have "structures in place" (modern vomit speak) that allow the infusion of new ideas into the established status quo, the slow morphing of the film industry and the product it creates. But I am convinced that the real leading edge of change is always embodied by artists, most of whom may not even be positively identified right now with film medium. And this is never recognized by the incumbents, who are always too busy excusing themselves and validating the way that things are right now.

For those of you who believe that this is all taken care of, that all is as it should be...I looked over the applications process to Creative New Zealand about a year ago and most of what I read was political stuff about the Treaty of Waitangi. Should an artist be left to navigate the depths or should they be scurrying around on the surface of life negotiating the modern political concerns. Only one possible answer for me.

And I really respected Ratty Crack Bride.
Hey is Francie Murray's daughter. Well done. Hope I catch up with you to chat about it.

Cheers,
Gregg.

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Peter Haynes:

Google is your friend. Google (at) www.google.com

On second thoughts, cancel my invitation to explain yourself in a direct email.

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IctusMortem
Since: May 2012
Posts: 400

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

I believe he was referring to the Billy Goats Gruff story...
"Trip trap trip trap trip trap... Who's that trip trapping over my bridge?".
I think it was really just too small a thing for him to bother emailing over :)

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to treefrog:

I think this line of inquiry/response (by all participants and bystanders) is redundant and facetious.
......TIME = BUDGET = TIME. Too simple an equation to require explanation.
Don't bolo us with other worldy masterpieces as examples of what can/could be done, please. .......Worse than useless and distracting as an example....Move along people, nothing more of value here......

I'm a bit dissapointed in you Mr Tee Frog. This is just another knee jerk reaction after a partial reading, and then joining the pack of snapping dogs.

The implications of selectively extending the timeline as a conscious choice to up the production values or artistic/creative value may be an obvious thing to some of us, but not to most. It's an idea worth discussing. But hey, it threatens the validity of the 48 hours nano-sphere? Not to me.

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

I'm a bit dissapointed in you Mr Tee Frog.

Sorry, I miss-spelt,....Mr, Tree Frog. Names are important.

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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

but comedy that tells me something about life, things I didn't know

Putting aside the classical definitions of comedy/tragedy, and focusing on the modern definition of comedy the only thing you can learn is the socio/political makeup of a society at a given time.

First and last rule of modern comedy is "someone gets hurt" whether it be physically or emotionally, someone becomes "lessened" in status or stature. That's it period. Find me a comedy where that doesn't happen and you're a bloody good detectice because it doesn't exist. The only question that remains, who gets hurt?

depending on any political correctness in a society at any time will give you the answer. yes that is a bit of a simplification but it is a general rule about society and film makers do tend to follow society trends.

I have this sneaking suspicion we're now talking in riddles and any detail is being lost in the detritus.

Where do good film makers come from? where does anything of quality come from? lord knows, it arrives.

we've had brilliant film makers before V48 and we'll have brilliant ones now and in the future, some will come out of the ranks of those participating in this, some will come having never heard of V48.

basically it's a lottery. you'll win some and loose some but at the end of the day people of talent, dedication and passion will always find a way of coming through.

I think if we all sit back and not try to anticipate where and how talent arrives but just embrace it and encourage when it does we'll be a whole heap more happy.

At least i will, and shifty likes to be happy.

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2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Shifty:

Putting aside the classical definitions of comedy/tragedy, and focusing on the modern definition .......
I have this sneaking suspicion we're now talking in riddles and any detail is being lost in the detritus.
Where do good film makers come from? where does anything of quality come from? ........I think if we all sit back and not try to anticipate where and how talent arrives but just embrace it and encourage when it does we'll be a whole heap more happy.
At least i will, and shifty likes to be happy.

You've got heart. Good on you.

With commedy, I've never explored the idea very much. As regards how to understand it, I'm sort of averse to overconstructed academic models used to explain things by the examination of parts, but this is a seemingly a universal thing now.

I like to think that if Albert Einstein talked to someone with no math/physics he could explain relativity in very accessible subjctive terms that required no academic construct at all. In quite a profound way.

Cheers,
Gregg

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Peter Haynes
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

On second thoughts, cancel my invitation to explain yourself in a direct email.

I may never recover from this rejection

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Moonlight shorts 2006 - 'Two Worlds' (Finalist)
48hrs 2006 - 'Phairytale' (Fairytale) Audience fave, Regional finals, Best Actress
48hrs 2007 - 'Cowboys and Indians' (Western) Audience fave
48hrs 2008 - 'Three's a Crowd' (Romance)
48hrs 2009 - 'The Loneliest Vampire' (Musical) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Best score
48hrs 2010 - 'Two Timer' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals
48scs 2011 - 'The Human Centi-V'
48hrs 2011 - 'Stuck in the Mini with you' (National Winner: Best Road Movie)
ABC's of Death - 'T is for Talk' - 2nd Place internationally
48hrs 2012 - 'Blackout' (Found Footage) Regional Finals
MMHM 2013 - 'Penance' - Final 6
48hrs 2014 - 'Flicker' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard, National Finals
48hrs 2015 - 'Katy Harrison: Grooming a Superstar' (Rockumentary) Audience fave, Regional Finals, National Finals
48hrs 2016 - 'Mahnamana' (Puppet Movie) Audience fave

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dramamike
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1359

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

and then joining the pack of snapping dogs.

Really? If people disagree with you and argue another side, they deserve to be dehumanised with such comments?

You come on the V48 Hours forum, a place where people meet electronically to discuss the competition, films and to be fair also talk crap, and while here you attack the very nature of the competition.

Why not air your concerns of the NZ film industry and the lack of film making geniuses etc in a place where the reaction is more to your liking?

My guess is that you come here because the V48 Hours has gathered together like minds and here you find people discussing the art form and therefore find people who are able to articulate their ideas. Therefore your point is somewhat defunct, as the competition is achieving the result of having people discuss and argue the merits or otherwise of the film.

So, Gregg Macpherson, if that is your real name, you've trip trapped over this bridge and the trolls have come out and you will struggle to suggest that something bigger and badder is coming along behind you. (Sorry for the dehumanising comments, but just trying to fill in the allusion you missed earlier).
Mike of the Drama

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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

well at this point I shall take my leave of this thread, I'm not sure I have anything more really to add.
I'd just like to say that all debate (in my view) is good debate. we live in a country where polar extremes and diversity of politics exist and yet we always end up with a relatively stable govt.
However once any debate becomes personalized it's stuffed regardless of any points of merit put forward from any side .

Besides i woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, I'd heard that there were some people out there that were actually beginning to think I was human after all. :)

So by all means discuss, debate and rationally defend but don't attack.

2013 - Nimlin Productions - Full House - Obsessive Relationship Movie
2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
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treefrog
From: Dunedin, Otago
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1115

in reply to Warren Walker:

Wasn't Blade Runner the one with Wesley Snipes?

Warren. See Me After Class. (sighs)

2009-2015 48 Hours Otago/Southland Manager, all-round filmy geek.
2008 - 'Oh! My Gucci Boots!' - Cats of a Feather - Director -*Best Costuming
2007 - 'ARC' - Schrodghers Cat - D.O.P.
2006 - 'Scarred-The Directors Cut' - Strange Attractor - Audience Favourite
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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to dramamike:

Posted at 08:22AM, 13 Jun 2012 ∞ Permalink in reply to Gregg MacPherson:
and then joining the pack of snapping dogs.
Really? If people disagree with you and argue another side, they deserve to be dehumanised with such comments?
....Why not air your concerns of the NZ film industry and the lack of film making geniuses etc in a place where the reaction is more to your liking?
..........the competition is achieving the result of having people discuss and argue the merits or otherwise of the film.
So, Gregg Macpherson, if that is your real name, you've trip trapped over this bridge and the trolls ..........Mike of the Drama</quote>


The tone of my original post was very sharp, tending towards aggressive. I can't apologize for that. But beyond that, it's the tone of the reactions that is setting the mood and style of behavior. The snapping dogs metaphor is descriptive. I don't see how that is dehumanizing. To call it so is just another little piece of reactive fluff.

I'm not sure if anyone has reacted on a genuine thinking level to my original post. They may have, but I have been full time dodging one snapping dog or another. As to the idea that you already have an achieved process of discussion in your forum community, I think, my opinion is that your perception of that is delusional. Hopefully you are just saying that as a reaction to me and don't really believe it.

And so, in the spirit of having useful or meaningful discussion, we suggest that someone being too challenging or being too sharp should leave?

This question of what my real name is? This is so totally bizarre. I was born with this name. When I first joined this forum (old forum) I introduced myself and described a couple of things I had been involved in historically, to try and give some context. I think that old forum may still be searchable. Maybe I'll write my CV and if the tone in the room improves I can share that.

I just wish people would take life seriously and live it like each moment was their last day on earth. Instead it seems too easy for the field of shared experience to be full of happy nonsense. And this is not to be confused with real happiness or fulfillment

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Peter Haynes
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

So you're allowed to make a post which, by your admission, was 'Sharp and Aggressive', but when people respond in kind they become 'Snapping dogs?'

In all honesty, there is nothing groundbreaking being discussed here, least of all in your original post. It's just the same old 'Serious vs Comedy' debate that comes up every single year, only dressed up in pretentious waffle.

And seriously, what exactly are you trying to say? Your point eludes me, drowned as it is in a sea of film school dropout jabber-jabber. Do you have a constructive point? Suggestions? Solutions to your perceived problem?

In my opinion, Film Commission, Creative NZ, NZ on Air...none of them have come up with 'anything' that comes close to the benefits that 48 hours has given to filmmaking in this country. It gives emerging talent a platform, an audience and the impetus to make at least one film a year, and real motivation to learn and improve, and other teams to set their standards against. It's resounding success, year after year, speaks for itself. And who cares if the majority of films are comedy? Who cares if they're silly? The majority of teams are YOUNG! They're having FUN doing something they LOVE! And maybe, because of the experience and the variety this contest gives them, one day they'll try their hand at the most amazing dramatic film we've all ever seen. No one knows.

Call me a snapping dog all you like, I don't care. I'm out there making films, not just bitching about them. Just don't expect to come into an established community, have a go at that established community and then expect us all to nod politely, dazzled by your intellect. Because as far as I can see, the emperor has no clothes.

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48 Hours Old Boys Club - Lifetime Member
Forum Winner: Best Snapping Dog award, 2012

48hrs 2003 - 'Rockqueste' (Fantasy)
48hrs 2004 - 'Flashman' (Musical)
48hrs 2005 - 'Jungle Fever' (Action) Audience fave, Regional finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard
Moonlight shorts 2006 - 'Two Worlds' (Finalist)
48hrs 2006 - 'Phairytale' (Fairytale) Audience fave, Regional finals, Best Actress
48hrs 2007 - 'Cowboys and Indians' (Western) Audience fave
48hrs 2008 - 'Three's a Crowd' (Romance)
48hrs 2009 - 'The Loneliest Vampire' (Musical) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Best score
48hrs 2010 - 'Two Timer' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals
48scs 2011 - 'The Human Centi-V'
48hrs 2011 - 'Stuck in the Mini with you' (National Winner: Best Road Movie)
ABC's of Death - 'T is for Talk' - 2nd Place internationally
48hrs 2012 - 'Blackout' (Found Footage) Regional Finals
MMHM 2013 - 'Penance' - Final 6
48hrs 2014 - 'Flicker' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard, National Finals
48hrs 2015 - 'Katy Harrison: Grooming a Superstar' (Rockumentary) Audience fave, Regional Finals, National Finals
48hrs 2016 - 'Mahnamana' (Puppet Movie) Audience fave

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treefrog
From: Dunedin, Otago
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1115

Gregg & Peter

Enough already.

Your points, while valid for the most part, are best suited to another forum.

Take this off site please.

2009-2015 48 Hours Otago/Southland Manager, all-round filmy geek.
2008 - 'Oh! My Gucci Boots!' - Cats of a Feather - Director -*Best Costuming
2007 - 'ARC' - Schrodghers Cat - D.O.P.
2006 - 'Scarred-The Directors Cut' - Strange Attractor - Audience Favourite
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Peter Haynes
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

Oh come on, the only decent flame war of 2012 and you're asking me to take it outside?

Team Haynesfilm/Ow - Affluent Syndicate
48 Hours Old Boys Club - Lifetime Member
Forum Winner: Best Snapping Dog award, 2012

48hrs 2003 - 'Rockqueste' (Fantasy)
48hrs 2004 - 'Flashman' (Musical)
48hrs 2005 - 'Jungle Fever' (Action) Audience fave, Regional finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard
Moonlight shorts 2006 - 'Two Worlds' (Finalist)
48hrs 2006 - 'Phairytale' (Fairytale) Audience fave, Regional finals, Best Actress
48hrs 2007 - 'Cowboys and Indians' (Western) Audience fave
48hrs 2008 - 'Three's a Crowd' (Romance)
48hrs 2009 - 'The Loneliest Vampire' (Musical) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Best score
48hrs 2010 - 'Two Timer' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals
48scs 2011 - 'The Human Centi-V'
48hrs 2011 - 'Stuck in the Mini with you' (National Winner: Best Road Movie)
ABC's of Death - 'T is for Talk' - 2nd Place internationally
48hrs 2012 - 'Blackout' (Found Footage) Regional Finals
MMHM 2013 - 'Penance' - Final 6
48hrs 2014 - 'Flicker' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard, National Finals
48hrs 2015 - 'Katy Harrison: Grooming a Superstar' (Rockumentary) Audience fave, Regional Finals, National Finals
48hrs 2016 - 'Mahnamana' (Puppet Movie) Audience fave

New Zealand's most epic webseries
http://www.afkwebseries.com
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IctusMortem
Since: May 2012
Posts: 400

It's true, there have been a disappointing lack of flame wars this year and I've been avidly watching this thread. :D
After all, this is the "general discussion" section of a film competition site, Treefrog, and it's remarkably on-topic.......

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Sam Spooner
From: Auckland
Since: May 2012
Posts: 91

Gregg, how about you put your money where your mouth is and join in with the rest of us next year? You have nothing to loose in terms of this discussion, if the film you make is "serious" and good you have proven that the rest of us don't need to rely on so much comedy, and if you make a film that sucks - well that's your point isn't it? That all our films suck and its the competitions fault?

I am pretty certain that most people here would take you a lot more seriously if you knew what you were talking about. As a non entrant you have no right to tell us that the competition model is broken. You have said yourself that some truly good films have come out of the competition, so clearly the model is not broken. Try leading by example instead of fighting a battle no one can win.

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treefrog
From: Dunedin, Otago
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1115

On your marks!
Get set.
Go! Make a film together.

See if I care.....

2009-2015 48 Hours Otago/Southland Manager, all-round filmy geek.
2008 - 'Oh! My Gucci Boots!' - Cats of a Feather - Director -*Best Costuming
2007 - 'ARC' - Schrodghers Cat - D.O.P.
2006 - 'Scarred-The Directors Cut' - Strange Attractor - Audience Favourite
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CraigWB
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 422

in reply to treefrog:

Thats the V48hours spirit!

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Peter Haynes:

........'Snapping dogs?'.........
.........there is nothing groundbreaking being discussed here, least of all in your original post. .......dressed up in pretentious waffle......
...a sea of film school dropout jabber-jabber. ........Call me a snapping dog all you like, I don't care. I'm out there making films, not just bitching about them

Congratulations for crossing the line and actually saying it rather than snickering from the sidelines. Seriously, no offence intended. This is better. But my first intuition to shift it off the forum was probably right. There are some importantly non factual things and offered insults in there. But rather than react to that in kind, my feeling is that it's just the anger talking. It doesn't tell me much about what Peter Haynes may think. I have to say, in style with this contest oriented community, you won the best snapping dog award. (not trying to be insulting, just seemed funny). Otherwise I could have.

I agree completely that there is nothing groundbreaking being discussed here, and my initiating post was not a discussion. What it was.....was someone having some intense ideas and simply disclosing them. And yes, with some risk to himself and risk of starting a big bun fight. But there is or was the possibility of discussion, although I had hoped it would be between other people. I would have been OK if people had rejected the content of my ideas and thoughtfully came up with something better.

Regarding the "film school dropout jabber-jabber". I am really averse to people in open discussions using elaborate and often brittle constructs drawn from their academic field or reading. I think making ideas more directly accessible on a subjective level is ...important. It's in me to bust my balls trying to do that. And I did try. The visionary designer/philosopher Buckminster Fuller famously said "I don't care who understands me as long as no-one misunderstands me" . Well I did care, but was almost uniformly misunderstood. To be clear, I'm not an academic or a huge reader.

The "drop out" thing. Have you been desperately googling my academic record looking for something to slag off about? (not asking, just wondering). The real story went more like this.

The First Dropping Out.
I started study in math, physics, chemistry, engineering in 1976. It was a brutal study programme, plus I was in love with a wonderful but voracious woman, and still had to learn about flatting, how to socialize, wash dishes etc while everyone gets high. It nearly broke me. Yea, go on, laugh, the poor guy nearly fucked himself to death. I made a deliberate decision to leave.

The Second Dropping Out
I woke up a year or two later at the Canterbury School of Fine Arts, like a fish in water. In the second year making sculpture under the late Tom Taylor. A great guy, he gave me complete freedom. At the end of that year I could have just left and started a career. At least this is what Tom basically told me a little later. I thought that was extraordinarily humble and giving of him. Rather than keeping a frisky youngster, to turn into one of the schools show ponies, he set me free. So the day after I assembled my end of year show, I boarded a plane to India to hook up with 4500
others sitting at the feet of the Master. When I came back I no longer felt like a "sculptor".

The Third Dropping Out.
I returned to CSFA....1982, to work in film. Tom Taylor was disappointed. He told me I should just bring my film camera into the sculpture studio. He was so right. Some of my "sculptures" were not objects, just processes that you could record as stills. It's a small step from there to a time laps of process where the medium itself could take over. But young ponies know better. Unfortunately the temp new film tutor was not smart, and was an absolute prick. The other students, some of them really nice and interesting artists, were timid. I wasn't. I can't remember whether I lasted 2 weeks or a month.

The First Dropping In (as in when surfing waves)
A couple of months later someone asked me to make a TVC (television commercial). Completely flukey yes. But in a way this one barely adequate little thing was a beginning. I have found about half of the record of what happened after that. I'm looking for the rest. To satisfy those that kept asking I will post my short CV in film soon.


Coming back to one of the themes of this thread. I could almost replace the word "serious" in my text with the word "sincere". And when I began this thread, sincerity was about the only thing that I felt that I had. If I was or am misunderstood in the first instance I'm probably done reacting to that. As I distance myself, the ideas in response to the (young minded) challenges about what I would do to fix whatever perceived problems is becoming more abstracted.

My thought. Somehow allow more sincerity. In the films yes, but also between each other.

I have a good friend who once quipped that "anyone working within their means is suffering from a serious lack of imagination". Maybe he borrowed that, and maybe I said that before. A priceless idea to me.

The shift in awareness that may be required to move towards films that are sustatially more, creatively potent, creatively nourishing, or whater thing you choose, is something that I think requires only a tiny shift in idea. But I think it's something you should decide for yourselves. Asking a semi outsider to to do anything like that for you is actually a little bit odd.

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Ant Timpson
From: New Zealand
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 340

Frog in all due respect, you are not the official moderator on this forum.
There's nothing to be concerned about in this thread.
And I want to thank Gregg for actually putting forth his point of view.
Obviously I don't agree with it but from these sort of discussions other ideas and tangents spring forth.

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