VF48Hours Lockdown Forum

Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

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Ratty Crack Bride rules. Beyond 48 hours etc.

Maybe most people on the forum are entrants in the competition and it's difficult to get an honest or in depth critique or discussion. Maybe I am a 48 hours resistant outsider. I tuned in to the screening room to look at entrants for the last couple of years (this years winners not being accessible yet). There are only two films in the last two years that I remember as honestly watchable, the Grand Cheval child jumping movie from last year and the Ratty Crack Bride pencil animation from this year.

The Child Jumpers, I honestly cant say how it got though my defences, but it did. Ratty crack bride I think knows its medium, was unaffected by this bizzare time constraint (48 hours !@#$%^&*), and has no flaws that compromise the core idea. And the core idea is good. It feels like a really personal, well familiarized fantasy. And it takes itself fully seriously, whereas most other entrants don't.

What is this irritating thing about Independent NZ cinema (which 48 hours is part of) where we have to treat everything with at least a faint layer of self parody/mockery or allow possible resopnse in a commedic vein. As if serious film is dead. What a joke. I blame it all on those Flight of the Concord fuckers, Eagle vs.. ..and Taika W., but it must have it's roots deeper than that.

I think people can create a little universe for themselves anyhow and anywhere they like, fiddling away while Rome burns etc, but for every action there is a reaction or an effect. There will be some new film makers who may represent the new Vincent Wards, Roger Donaldsons, Peter Jacksons of tomorrow and the environment you guys have created with 48 hours will actually hold them back. So I think there is a responsibility towards the future.

I heard some guys talking about what lies beyond 48 hours. Some of you already have your answers to that. Others don't. In case this shockingly obvious thing has not been stated. Having 48 hours to conceive, develop and execute is a bizare and extreme constraint. It's almost a formula to produce a high volume of mediocre or seriously flawed films. All of which is fine if it's a lot of fun. But I seem to witness industry professionals who are involved, who simply want to validate this, rather than help explain the broader context - help people to find what lies beyond.

Anyone who thinks that the Make My Movie idea is what lies beyond is completely wrong. The idea of film making being popularized or democratized is alreaday a notion at least half realized. Can this really be cool or subversive anymore. No, just forget about that.

You need something to encourage really high quality short films that are not basically goomed by the NZFC or anyone else. Frankly, short films that are made as compliant promos to an individuals entry into the main stream NZ industry are not of high value in the big picture at all, unless by some accident they are totally amazing films.

In conclusion. Fuck democracy (in art and film). No two things are created equal. Yes we can have "structures in place" (modern vomit speak) that allow the infusion of new ideas into the established status quo, the slow morphing of the film industry and the product it creates. But I am convinced that the real leading edge of change is always embodied by artists, most of whom may not even be positively identified right now with film medium. And this is never recognized by the incumbents, who are always too busy excusing themselves and validating the way that things are right now.

For those of you who believe that this is all taken care of, that all is as it should be...I looked over the applications process to Creative New Zealand about a year ago and most of what I read was political stuff about the Treaty of Waitangi. Should an artist be left to navigate the depths or should they be scurrying around on the surface of life negotiating the modern political concerns. Only one possible answer for me.

And I really respected Ratty Crack Bride.
Hey is Francie Murray's daughter. Well done. Hope I catch up with you to chat about it.

Cheers,
Gregg.

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nzmick
From: Queenstown
Since: May 2011
Posts: 25

I don't see fault in a competition that encourages participation. How do you develop, encourage, inspire and grow without participation in something? I don't believe this competition is about producing 500 top class short movies. It's about getting involved (and importantly having the opportunity to be involved) and somewhere along the way, a director, sound guy, actor, writer, etc will get encouraged to take it to the next level. Also, I'd like to refer to you as GMAC from now on. I hate real names in forums.

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IctusMortem
Since: May 2012
Posts: 408

I guess I see this competition as more about the people and individual films rather than the business. People may get jobs that came from someone seeing their 48 hour film, they might decide that filmmaking is what they want to do for the rest of their life - which might pump up the industry, but that isn't the aim.
The self parody and mockery I'm guessing comes from the current New Zealand society's way of looking at itself, but you seem to have made a hugely generalised statement for such an in-depth post. You write what you know (and yes, that still applies to fantasy and scifi etc), and lets face it, life isn't really all as serious as a lot of people seem to find it. As stated by previous repliers, a large percentage of the films in this competition ARE "serious", so it's just an inaccurate statement due to the generalisation you've made.
I think there's already a stage for people to succeed where really high quality short films are encouraged. It's called life, as well as all those film festivals (the ones where you put in a pre-made film, not create one specifically for the festival :D ) in the national and international arena. People can enter those - or create their own celebration of art and whatnot - but there aren't very many options for people who want to improve, be judged and get honest criticism from both critics and the general public without being laughed out of the room (and I'm talking about professionals and amateurs here - there's a lot of strange ideas that would get chucked out normally that succeed here). There's bad and good films, but isn't that the point of a competition? And it's 2 days, so everyone can do something productive for society for the rest of the 363 days as you seem to be implying this is not (excuse me if I'm wrong). But as stated right at the start of this comment I made, I find this is more for the individual, perhaps enriching their lives, getting themselves out of the rut people get stuck in (god knows we need more of that), extending their skills or at least knowing how skilled they actually are, all while keeping it as simple as possible. 2 days. Everyone involved there. Only the willing, no money. Even the main technical difference between teams (resources) can be seen as just the competition between producers.
But hey, that's just me and maybe I'm naive. But here's my answer to your non-question.

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Shifty:

you have to take this contest out of any context concerning the wider film/short film area in NZ. It really is a stand alone thing in exactly the same way as you have to take the Around the Bays run out of any context concerning the field of athletics in NZ

Hey Shifty,

A sympathetic voice amongst a vortex of snapping dogs.

The 48 hours as a fun thing to do or as an innocent entry point for very new people, I'm good with that, I like the idea. But I think it is obvious that really good films will not easily come out of it given the extreme time constraint. I think its an environment where some people will learn bad things, like throwing their best ideas out the window in order to achieve a deadline. There is a post somewhere above where Searlo tells me..."Having longer to plan and execute would not (and does not) equate to better films". That is just so numbingly wrong as a general notion, I just don't know what to say.

I'm out of time. I'll try and get back to some of your ideas later.

Cheers,
Gregg

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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

Time constraints can be a beneficial thing Greg. By god it focuses the mind.
when I first started out in regional TV we had serious time constraints.

I kid you not but this was my day.

arrive at work at 9, try and find a story, any story, get on the phone find someone who was prepared to be interviewed then rush off and do the interview, Do the interview and camera alone including double and single interviewer and interviewee shots, as well as all the cutaways, audio, noddies, the lot, all solo. . Rip back to the studio and edit up a ten minute segment for the news and make it interesting and then have it ready for conversion so it could be uploaded into the news room no later than 3.30- 4 o'clock for the 5 o'clock news and then do the weather forcast live. lord I should upload some of my weather forcasts, i had so much fun pissing about with the weather. To cap it all when i first got a job there I had never touched a camera, didn't know how to switch the bugger on and my computer experience was limited to playing sonic the hedgehog.

I did that every day for 18 months. There were three of us doing it and to get the NZ on air funding we had to do a live one hour show every day and that's how we did it. Oh and as we only had one car two days out of three we had to leg it there and back with all the gear.

And if you think that's doing okay how about this.
We didn't have $20,000 to set up a microwave link from the studio to the antenna on the hill so good old kiwi know how produced this little number. A $10 wok from the warehouse worked a treat. :)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10425224

It's all about thinking on your feet. The same as the V48, learning to think on your feet. It's probably the most important lesson you can learn from it.

It's why when i found nimlin close to breaking point at 3.30 am saying we're stuffed because half the footage was missing i knew full well we weren't stuffed, we still had 24 hours and it could be salvaged, maybe not to the level we wanted or the storyline totally intact but it could be salvaged and we would make it and we did.

However for those that complain they'd have liked more time to do what they really wanted the oppurtunity to re-do their work at a leisurely pace once the comp is over, note i said over and then upload it to youtube in all it's glory as they wanted it to be is there.

V48 will not teach a budding film maker to a great cameraman or editor, that comes with practice, lots of practice. Practice that you do during the year.

What it will teach you is commitment, the ability to think quickly and be able to change fast to any issues that arise and find a way around any barriers that come your way. Also it teaches the importance of team work, how to put one together how to run one and how to be a reliable cog within one.

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dmanthei
From: Christchurch
Since: May 2011
Posts: 418

That was well-written and thoroughly enjoyable, Shifty.

The job you had sounds like it would have been fun...
probably for a maximum of about 18 months,
before perma-burn consumed you. ;-D

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Sam Spooner
From: Auckland
Since: May 2012
Posts: 91

Some ideas that are not possible on the weekend are not thrown out, if an idea is really good then a lot of people go and make that idea a reality outside of the competition and without the competition they never would have been conceived in the first place.

Admittedly, a lot of great ideas are thrown out simply because brains can be completely frazzled by the end of the weekend so they are simply forgotten, but suggesting that the competition is a bad idea because of that is pretty silly.

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Shifty:

Time constraints can be a beneficial thing Greg. By god it focuses the mind.
when I first started out in regional TV we had serious time constraints.

Hey Shifty,

I thought that was a nice story. Work, extreme time constraints and so on. I don't believe that it’s influencing my idea much, but I take something from it. By the way, I apologize for not sticking up for you a while back when it looked to me that you were thinking through some difficult things about film/life/career and (it looked like) Genre Craig stuck a pin in you.

I'd like to express some ideas. Not in response to you. Responding to some of the others. I can't respond to everybody separately , and if I did it would get a bit vicious and non productive.

So:
The people who are going to make the great films of tomorrow are internally identified with great things. Even if, momentarily, like David in Prometheus says "big things have small beginnings". It's all about the internal condition, the deeper consciousness that these people have. So I am all in favor of whatever enables that.

It is easier to learn about the constraints of film making that it is to embody those ideas that will enable the great films of the future. In 48 hours it's all about learning the value of the constraints, and in quite a brutal and unrealistic way. Nearly all films that get made have time constraints. Some of the best films ever made let that slide. For some short personal films where you don't have a paid writer, paid crew (or a tiny crew) or expensive rentals, then stretching the timeline is one of the most useful things that can happen. The best way of learning about that would be to put oneself near the epicenter of someone else’s short art film that was out of control schedule wise.

So, for those who do want to make amazing films, as opposed to those just having fun:

Why not be identified with great things. If you have seen the documentative interviews with Hampton Fancher, the first Blade Runner writer, I swear he sounds like he would almost have given his life for that project. The level of intensity and commitment is extreme. Regarding Ridley Scotts development and execution of that film. It's basically non linear (meaning not in a straight line), always going over time and over budget. Thank god that he did it. If there are any film makers on this forum that want to make really good or great films, identify with that.

Partly for those little shits on the forum (who should have stopped reading before this) who think this is irrelevant: This movie has indirectly shaped your perceptions, experience of media and the world you will move in, whether you like it or not. I think Ridley S. understands the irreverence of the new. The myth of the sons killing the father, the new looking for its maker, only to destroy it. A really interesting ingrained myth, at least for film/art.

If the 48 hours family helps engender the great film makers of tomorrow then good. Otherwise, I think that while it may perpetuate itself or even grow it will be sidelined by seriously creative people. The democratization and normalization of new-film is contra to the the realization of film as art, poetic film and those films that cross the divide with those qualities intact, into the accessible edge of the mainstream. And to be clear, Blade Runner is the great historical example of that kind of film.

Regarding the forum. Maybe you have a big subscription, but only a vocal minority. Normally the most interesting ideas never get written. I'm an odd case, I spoke up because something feels out of kilter with what might be possible. But even the snapping dogs who feel offended by what's being said should feel a responsibility to know what ideas might come. I don't mean from me.

Cheers,
Gregg.

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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

in reply to dmanthei:

That was well-written and thoroughly enjoyable, Shifty.The job you had sounds like it would have been fun...probably for a maximum of about 18 months,before perma-burn consumed you. ;-D

I have my moments but don't let on or I'll be expected to produce more of them. :)

For all i crack on and act like an idiot most of the time i take film very seriously, incredibly seriously, my collection of films now is well over 800 and now I'm starting to study how the Russians make their films, how they view the world through the medium, At least they're not like the german films, their film makers think a short film is 2 hours. :)
It is intersting to see however how they takle telling a story. I just watched one called Bastards. Very akin to the German film The Bridge but the story line is far more brutal and although the production values are very poor it still rates highly.

getting back to Greg, I think however there is to be noted that there is a fine line between valid criticizm and being negative for the sake of it.
Unfortunately with the written medium it's not always easy to get a point across.

There is never going to be a way of ironing out all the apparent or percieved flaws in anything once it has the label competition stuck to it.
If there were no prizes or glory and just a bloody great party at the end of the weekend then everyones view would be totally different. it's the nature of the beast.
I equated it to the Round the Bays Run and it is very much like it except that fun run has no real prizes of value up for grabs so the participants view of it will always be different.

yes there are down sides, the biggest is probably that it teaches anyone new sloppy habits and bad work practices. once you get into those it's bloody hard to shake them.

However that has a good corresponding balance by the fact no film entered has to go past a judging panel before being shown, everyone gets to see their film in public. If that wasan't the case then no one starting out would ever learn from others what they are doing wrong or how they could improve.

That is where it is absolutely vital that comments in the screening room be as constructive as possible. No one new is going to learn a frigging thing from a comment like " bloody hated it, didn't understand anything" .

I grew up in an era of mentors and i don't see much of that happening anymore. in the past I've gone out of my way to try and pass on something of what I love to younger people and those with no experience.

this is one of my efforts and it was incredibly successful and that year voted by the National Mayors taskforce as being the most innovative.
None of those kids had evr switched on a camera before and yet everyone of them completed a finished short film, some of which were absolute stunners. even the Ministry of Youth Affairs were impresssed

http://www.odt.co.nz/the-regions/north-otago/40569/young-people-film-submissions

I've worked with kids as young as 8 and have got good results.
getting people underway is the most difficult task, film making is a daunting business, V48 is a good intro but it is not a lesson in making quality film,
I don't think anyone will disagree with me that an amateur with basic gear and little knowledge can produce quality in 48 hours.

the real issue is how to go about keeping the interest maintained during the other 51 weeks of the year and how to give budding talent the impotice to keep going.

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2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
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Andrew Todd
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 680

in reply to Gregg MacPherson:

Please don't call our competitors "little shits".

People would be more likely to give your opinions consideration if you didn't display such obvious and offensive contempt for the competition whose website you're posting on, and more importantly the individuals who compete in it.

Back on topic: 48HOURS does not prevent anyone from making "great works". It's an amateur, fun, populist filmmaking competition that is extremely popular, but it's not the only means through which people can or do make films in New Zealand.

Nobody's going to smash your camera if you want to make a non-narrative film art piece. Nobody's going to enforce time constraints upon you for your personal projects. And nobody's ever going to tell you what to make, unless they're paying for it, in which case it's their project too.

It sounds as though you have issues with the NZ film landscape that are bigger than 48HOURS, it's just that this is the only major public forum through which to discuss them. Have you taken them up with the Film Commission, Creative NZ, etc?

I'm curious to know what kind of work you do, as well - or at least what kinds of films (Blade Runner excepted) you think should be being made in New Zealand.

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Andrew Todd:

Please don't call our competitors "little shits".

It's just not right that people improperly read what I wrote then make a knee jerk reaction.

In my last post I called anyone who does not respect the work, commitment, intensity, and working process of Ridley Scott and Hampton Fancher on Blade Runner....yes, a little shit.

I think a large number of the forum members have an interest in film in NZ generally. Nothing wrong with that. A small number will be in transit through V8 hours on the way to somewhere else. So I don't think there is anything wrong with people talking about things outside of or beyond 48 hours.

As regards who has the right to pop difficult or challenging ideas (and maybe this is underlying your question). It shouldn't matter. It should be able to come from anywhere

The final question, where I can't tell if you are being sincere or not. I don't care what kinds of film the most talented emerging new film makers make as long at it somehow is informed by the most important things or ideas that they have. For me that can include comedy, but comedy that tells me something about life, things I didn't know

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Peter Haynes
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

Trip, trap, trip, trap.....

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treefrog
From: Dunedin, Otago
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1115

I think this line of inquiry/response (by all participants and bystanders) is redundant and facetious.

V48 is unique as a substance and as a product.

TIME haemorrages in a predictable and constant manner during the shoot weekend.
In just the same manner as money evaporates during a major/minor shoot.
TIME = BUDGET = TIME. Too simple an equation to require explanation.

Don't bolo us with other worldy masterpieces as examples of what can/could be done, please. Other times mean other solutions.
Worse than useless and distracting as an example.

Give thirty teams thirty identical resource sets and you'll get thirty different films in the same time. Obviously.

And if you cerebum isn't stimulated by what you see in one frame, click to watch the next opportunity.

Move along people, nothing more of value here......

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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

in reply to treefrog:

Move along people, nothing more of value here......

You mean I can go back to talking total and utter bollocks with your stamp of approval ? :))))

I'll woohoo in adavance and anticiptation of getting the big tick from the frogster

woooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :))))))

2013 - Nimlin Productions - Full House - Obsessive Relationship Movie
2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
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treefrog
From: Dunedin, Otago
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1115

oh, crap, I forgot about you Eric...

2009-2015 48 Hours Otago/Southland Manager, all-round filmy geek.
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2006 - 'Scarred-The Directors Cut' - Strange Attractor - Audience Favourite
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toowit toowoo
From: Dunedin
Since: May 2011
Posts: 113

in reply to Peter Haynes:

Is that a billy goats gruff reference?

I just came here because I thought we were pouring praise on Ratty Crack Bride. Really amazing film!

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Conan the Barbarian
From: Auckland
Since: May 2011
Posts: 56

...well I had fun this year. Anyone else?

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Gregg MacPherson
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 232

in reply to Peter Haynes:

Trip, trap, trip, trap.....

I don't know what that means. If you want to explain it please email me direct at viz(at)xtra.co.nz.

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Peter Haynes
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 89

Google is your friend. Google (at) www.google.com

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48hrs 2005 - 'Jungle Fever' (Action) Audience fave, Regional finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard
Moonlight shorts 2006 - 'Two Worlds' (Finalist)
48hrs 2006 - 'Phairytale' (Fairytale) Audience fave, Regional finals, Best Actress
48hrs 2007 - 'Cowboys and Indians' (Western) Audience fave
48hrs 2008 - 'Three's a Crowd' (Romance)
48hrs 2009 - 'The Loneliest Vampire' (Musical) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Best score
48hrs 2010 - 'Two Timer' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals
48scs 2011 - 'The Human Centi-V'
48hrs 2011 - 'Stuck in the Mini with you' (National Winner: Best Road Movie)
ABC's of Death - 'T is for Talk' - 2nd Place internationally
48hrs 2012 - 'Blackout' (Found Footage) Regional Finals
MMHM 2013 - 'Penance' - Final 6
48hrs 2014 - 'Flicker' (Time Travel) Audience fave, Regional Finals, Peter Jackson Wildcard, National Finals
48hrs 2015 - 'Katy Harrison: Grooming a Superstar' (Rockumentary) Audience fave, Regional Finals, National Finals
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Warren Walker
From: Dunedin
Since: May 2012
Posts: 20

Wasn't Blade Runner the one with Wesley Snipes? I liked that series.

Could you please bullet point your question because I am too stupid to understand what point you're trying to make or what questions you are trying to pose.

Ta.

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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 874

in reply to treefrog:

oh, crap, I forgot about you Eric...

You cruel heartless man.. sob sob how could you treat to me like that and with the wedding so close, sob sob, you men are all the same. :(.....

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2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
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