VF48Hours 2020 Forum

Kawiti Naitoro
Since: May 2013
Posts: 67

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No MD5 Submission for Out of Towners??? Are we expected to upload the whole film now?

https://www.48hours.co.nz/2017/city/?ss=outoftown

This year we are only accepting digital submissions from the out of town teams, you must fill out your online wrap up form and upload your film through our Digital Pigeon server before 7 pm Sunday 27th August.

I checked this section of the website about a week a go and there was a bunch of info about submitting an MD5 file as proof of file creation for Out of Town Teams. Now all this information is gone. What happened? Can someone from staff clarify if this is a mistake?

Are Out of Towners expected to upload their whole film? Seems pretty sad as some of the Out of Town areas have poor internet - especially upload speeds. Might be faster to drive to the nearest city to hand the film in.

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Kawiti Naitoro
Since: May 2013
Posts: 67

before the edit

summer co
2018 | in the woods (star crossed lovers)
chch city finalist
nominated best cinematography
best professional drone operator NZ official

"I didn't vote for you. lol. "

"I prefer JAGBOGs film"

" I just feel like you guys were mad you got that genre (star crossed lovers) and decided to throw a tantrum and do the stupidest thing you could"

- Alexander Jones, Christchurch City Manager

sneaky horses
2014 | second skin (fantasy)
AJ's favourite 48hour films

"Wow the cinematography is beautiful! I can't believe this didn't make city finals."

- Alexander Jones, Christchurch City Manager

(comment on the screening room)

2013 | lend me a vein (musical)

"no comment"

- Alexander Jones , Christchurch City Manager
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ruth
Since: May 2011
Posts: 153

Yep this year Out of Towners need to have their film uploaded by 7pm - same as other teams need to hand in to the handin area. But the MD5 is still available as insurance - I'll check the site and make that this is clear.

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UNR3ALHAZARD
From: Dargaville
Since: May 2012
Posts: 4

in reply to ruth:

What happens if the film is still uploading while the comp closes but we uploaded it before the 7pm deadline.? Does the MD5 back up apply there?
Living in a rural town my upload is barely 1mb/s at the best of times.

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wedeyedwobot
From: Nelson
Since: Sep 2016
Posts: 6

in reply to ruth:

The technical FAQ page states that 'Typically you will not need more than 2Gb if correctly exported' - in terms of file size for the final film, so I tried an upload speed test via Digital Pigeon from my domestic broadband connection here in sunny Nelson and was surprised that the quoted upload ETA was a whopping 5-6 hours at 0.8 mb/s (which is a pretty standard speed for my neighbourhood). This seems to be a real handicap to out of town teams and increasingly so for teams in rural areas, which sucks.

How thoroughly was this idea tested? It's not like it takes 'in town' teams anywhere near that long to make it to the hand in does it? If other teams experience similarly unworkable upload speeds then there will be a lot resorting to the MD5 backup, which means it might as well be the go to method for hand in.

This does seem to be a poorly thought through rule change. As an out of town entrant should I make a genuine effort to get my whole film uploaded by 7 PM which looks like it means finishing the render by 1PM Sunday (making it an HP 36Hours this year) or do I make use of the 'WHAT IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG?' clause in the rules that states 'In case there is a problem with your file upload we have a backup called the MD5 checksum code...' etc. What constitutes something going wrong? Waiting 5-6 hours to upload 2 Gbs seems pretty wrong so does that qualify? How will that be scrutinised?

Have you guys thought this through properly?

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dramamike
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1353

in reply to wedeyedwobot:

Sounds rough.
There will be 'reasons' but it does sound like an impossibility.
What about if the upload has simply 'started' before 7pm and a MD5 entered? This would mean that the film is 'finished' in the time allowed, but upload speed taken into account.
This combined with the MD5 would provide a back-up if the upload fails.

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ruth
Since: May 2011
Posts: 153

Hi all, we've changed it this year as we have many teams who do drive a fair distance for hand in and delivery and have noted the advantage that Out Of Town registration might give them if they just stayed home and made an MD5 file at the last minute... Which kinda ruins the excitement at the finish line.

So helpful suggestions:
- Have you tried doing a full test - the eta may change if you let it run through
- Are you using a lower bit rate to create a smaller file?
- Do you have access to someone with faster internet who could help out?

The MD5 is still a backup if the upload fails but if it does look like in a real world test things are going to be dire then touch base with your city manager.

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Freezingfire
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 23

We must have received your upload by 7pm, as Ruth has stated this is to avoid people in other centers uploading rather than delivering their films, consider the upload your drive to the hand-in and the internet your transport.

Digital Pigeon provides speeds that outstrip any consumer (and most professional) level internet speeds. If you're on dial up find someone with a good connection or consider what the size of your file is.

We recommend (from our FAQ)

Video Bitrate: Variable bit rate encoding approximately 10 megabits per second. We recommend the following bitrates for highest quality at the following frame sizes:

1024 x 576: 4 megabits per second (i.e 4mb/s or 4000 kb/s)
1280 x 720: 8 megabits per second (i.e 8mb/s or 8000 kb/s)
1920 x 1080: 10 megabits per second (i.e 10mb/s or 10000 kb/s)

However from experience though you'll still get really good results at 1080p at 6000kb/s and 720p at 3000/kbps at these levels your films should be around 200-500mb max.

If you're still having issues do get in touch.

On the night I'll be monitoring uploads as they start and come in and those that do or do not make it in on time.

Johnathan Guest
Halcyon Entertainment
14 time 48Hours entrant
2018 Auckland City Winner
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wedeyedwobot
From: Nelson
Since: Sep 2016
Posts: 6

Usually our entries clock in around the 350 mb size. I tested a larger file size because the previous version of the FAQ stated that 'Typically you will not need more than 2Gb if correctly exported'. I realise that this refers to media but this year the upload is our media. Glad to see that has been edited, thanks Johnathan.

I agree that it sucks if people are considering exploiting loopholes in the rules, but this rule change won't really prevent that. If they 'drive a fair distance for hand in' as Ruth says then they should qualify for out of town entry. On the other hand if there is an issue where people from other centres choose to upload rather than deliver their entries then those with a nice fast fibre connection can still claim that advantage. A 350mb file will still upload in a minute or two which in no way approximates the physical delivery time and is still essentially the same as flicking off an MD5 at the last minute.

I get what you guys are trying to achieve but I wonder if there might be another solution to stifle the rule benders. Also, I'm not whingeing for my own sake. I've tested an upload from my workplace and it looks like it could take less than a minute. I'm just concerned that this new rule is potentially a shift away from one of the best aspects of 48hours which is that it's a competition of ideas, not the best toys (in this case the fastest internet).

Will be interesting to see how it works out. Good luck on the night.

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Freezingfire
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 23

in reply to wedeyedwobot:

Just a quick reply - I've posted a more detailed one on the FB group thread.

The aim of HP48 Hours is to create and deliver a film within 48 hours. It's all about the ideas and never about the technology, however it does help in certain cases. And like having a car helps get your film to the hand-in instead of walking, having faster internet will help you get your film in on time.

Johnathan Guest
Halcyon Entertainment
14 time 48Hours entrant
2018 Auckland City Winner
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