48HOURS Forum

Ant Timpson
From: New Zealand
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 317

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What do we deliver our film on?

We are busy testing options for file delivery and are trying to come up with a solution that best suits all regions and the technical level of all teams. Stay tuned.

UPDATE from Tarlen

The file-based hand-in specs have now been specified, and are available on the rules page.

Quick Summary:

Video Codec: h.264
Audio Codec: AAC-LC
File Extension: mp4 or mov
Framerate: 25
Resolution: 1024 x 576 (SD), 1280 x 720, 1920 x 1080
Field Order: Progressive playback only (deinterlaced video if shot interlaced)
Video Bitrate: Variable bit rate encoding no higher than 10 megabits per second. We recommend the following bitrates for highest quality at the following frame sizes
1024 x 576: 3 megabits per second (i.e 3mb/s or 3000 kb/s)
1280 x 720: 6 megabits per second (i.e 6mb/s or 6000 kb/s)
1920 x 1080: 8 megabits per second (i.e 8mb/s or 8000 kb/s)
Audio Bitrate: 192 kilobits per second (i.e 192 kb/s)

Filename: The file should be named with your team name followed by 2011
e.g Team Artificial Nipple should have a file called Artificial Nipple2011.mp4 or Artificial Nipple2011.mov

Your SINGLE FILE must include the following video content in the following order:

* Team intro 30 Seconds or Less
* Info Card Team, Title, Genre, City - White on Black 10 Seconds
* (optional)Team Logo 10 Seconds max
* Short Film Between 1 minute and 7 minutes max, including credits.
* Black At least 5 seconds

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Rocket Boy
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 38

I don't think this needs to be as hard as people are making out.

Vimeo face this problem and so have a help page dedicated to the settings they prefer, that would be good starting place. The vimeo page on this is here http://www.vimeo.com/help/compression

As well as detailing a preferred file format/compression codec I would provide standard export settings for the main video editing software available, I use Premiere Pro and this has a number of default export settings, I'm not sure exactly what Final Cut has as export options but again provide a recommended set of export options. Add recommended settings for iMovie, Sony Vegas etc and you will have most people covered. I know there will be people not using the main/most popular editing software so in that case default to the Vimeo preferred settings.

And to make sure the file will play before submitting, ask people to download and install something like VLC media player (which is totally free) or use a hardware platform (like the PS3) as the 'gold standard'. Alternatively people can still submit a DVD or (if you really really had to) a miniDV tape.

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tarlen
From: Cactuslab
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 241

in reply to Cookie:

too much nit-picking

That's me. :-)

2010 - "Lift" (Ghost - Lighting/FX) - Late
2009 - "Omnipedia" (Religious - Producer/Editor)
2008 - "The Perfectionist" (Superhero - Producer/Director/Editor)
2007 - "Bane" (Monster - Producer/Director/Editor)
2005 - "Super Boy Meets Girl" (Superhero - FX)
2004 - "House of Raging Women" (Educational - FX)
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tarlen
From: Cactuslab
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 241

in reply to Craig Parkes:

BUT if I can supply a custom preset for download for Handbrake this might work... The difficulty I think though is that the user will still need to add a command line command into a box on x.264 settings to tell the encoder if the footage is top field first or bottom field first, not sure if that can be done as a preset.

I hope this does work, Handbrake is nice and easy to use.

2010 - "Lift" (Ghost - Lighting/FX) - Late
2009 - "Omnipedia" (Religious - Producer/Editor)
2008 - "The Perfectionist" (Superhero - Producer/Director/Editor)
2007 - "Bane" (Monster - Producer/Director/Editor)
2005 - "Super Boy Meets Girl" (Superhero - FX)
2004 - "House of Raging Women" (Educational - FX)
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Craig Parkes
From: Auckland
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 127

Rocket Boy - it is as hard as people are suggesting to get it right.

Vimeo, like Youtube, will simply reconvert anything that isn't standard, and has a huge amount of background infrastructure with which to do so.

The heat organizers will not have that option. Also, we want to ensure people have the opportunity in playback to have their films viewed in good quality when projected.

As I have pointed out above, standard export settings in any app that uses quicktime to export (a large amount) won't handle interlaced mp4/h.264 encoding. This is very problematic for the large number of people who will be shooting interlaced.

No point in supplying a delivery format with instructions that will result in reduced quality for many teams.

With hardware based players (which is the direction being investigated) you can't offer those as a gold standard, use MUST provide a robust workflow that teams can you that will ENSURE playback, otherwise teams who finished on time would not be able to screen because of the organizers lack of instructions. That would not be acceptable.

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Rocket Boy
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 38

Craig - it would be hugely disappointing if this is just chucked in the too hard basket and we are left submitting on DVD or miniDV only.

A lot of people will be shooting in HD with solid state storage, this contest needs to cater for those people. Say I shoot and edit the whole thing on my iphone how am I meant to submit my film?

The 48 hour film contest is a worldwide event what do other places do?

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mikedensem
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 315

I'm not tech savvy regarding all this stuff but;
It seems to me that if a commercial client brought a random video file to any video business they would be able to convert it to a standard - they should have the tools to do so (e.g. quicktime, Compressor, Handbrake, ...).
Surely the 48Hours can simply list the acceptable formats and then deal with the various files:

Delivery: USB device (key, drive)
Size: 576, 720, 1080
Frame Rate: 24, 25, 50 (indicate p or i)
Video codec: h.264, WMV, 10bit uncompressed!
Audio codec: ACC, ...

If an team messes this up then it is their bad luck (as it has always been with mini DV).

--------------------
2013 - [boo hoo - didn't participate]
2012 - The Juxtaposition - Action Movie: INFUSION
2011 - Princess Zoe Films - Fad Movie: Contra-fable-gooble 'ness
2010 - Princess Zoe Films (Rubber Tears) - Road Movie: 'Whole Wide World'
2009 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Parallel World: 'Smoke and Mirrors'
2008 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Juvenile Delinquent: 'Lipstick Karma'
2007 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Grindhouse: 'Grindhouse Day Presents'
2006 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - War/Western: 'An Unruly Patch of Land'
2005 - Team 'Imagic Mushrooms' - Pretentious Art: 'Erar Muidem'
Reply

Craig Parkes
From: Auckland
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 127

It's not being chucked in the too hard basket - other 48 Hours competitions all do things quite differently and also don't have the breadth and depth of participants of V48 Hours.

Don't worry, I'm pretty confident that there'll be a workflow we can supply that anyone can use and will also ensure the films look great on the night, figuring that out and getting it documented does require time, but I think we are close (and this long weekend fortunately means time away from work to get documentation done.)

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Daniel Huisman
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 58

Despite the possible stuttering problem, progressive delivery is probably a good thing, considering the increasing likelihood of people to be shooting progressive in the first place.

At least this way, if you shoot progressive, you shouldn't get any nasty surprises when it comes to the conversion. (Unless you sadistically make the required technical element a whip pan).

2013 SuspectTV - "The Dark" - Horror
2011 SuspectTV - "Naughty Man" - Horror - National Finalist, Chch Winner
2010 Team Zzzzzzz - "Tu Padre" - Road Movie - Chch Finalist
2009 SuspectTV - "Toys Will Be Toys" - Family Movie
2008 SuspectTV - "Leg Off" - Dance/Musical
2007 SuspectTV - "My Spicy Chai" - Romance - Chch Finalist
2006 SuspectTV - "The Last Wingnut" - Fairytale
2005 Team Donovan - Mockumentary- Dunedin Finalist
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ryan
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 237

I've been out of the loop for the last couple of months, does this mean we are looking at HD delivery?

Was RyanM on the old forum.
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ShadowGhost
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 41

They are not saying yet.

I wish they would, as it would make my job simpler post wise but make my focus pulling all that much harder during shooting.

Formally "TechnicalShadow" (or what ever spelling I used)
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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 872

You know what, i haven't the faintest idea of any of this stuff you're talking about.. I think I said some where something about professional and ameteur teams..
If you can't export it of the timeline as a standard default avi from a program like Adobe and stick it on a usb then I'm keeping my money in my trousers, seriously..
I wonder if I'm the only one out there with the balls to say they're pig ignorant of any of this type of talk because I bet there are a few..

2013 - Nimlin Productions - Full House - Obsessive Relationship Movie
2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
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Darkhawk
From: Hamilton
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 195

in reply to Shifty:

That's got to be about the shortest post I've ever seen from Ol Shifty :)

2014 Morgan Horror
2012 Broken Clover The Found Footage Movie
2011 Looking@Love Romantic Comedy
2010 Blood is Thicker than Water The Road Movie
2009 Rockin Chaos Dance
2008 Torched Superhero
2007 Odd Sods Musical
2006 Another Turning Point Coming of age
2005 Friday the 13th Filmaking Fury Mokumentary
2004 The Hand Job Heist
..................................................

AKA Andy, Team Leader of Big Red Fire Truck
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DogsBreakfast
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 170

in reply to Shifty:

I'm with you. My exporting knowledge is limited to say the least. That's another reason I have enjoyed handing in a tape - let alone the fact it only takes as long as your movie to output without having to render a whole new file because you realised you missed something at the last minute.

Last year there were some great screen shots of all the settings for the different programs which I just followed to the letter so hoepfully that'll happen again.

If we are just given a file typeand a bunch of tech info about field lacing etc then I'm in big trouble. But I know the 48 bosses are very good and unlikely to leave anyone hanging on such an important issue.

2014 "Brick Impact" - Race Against the Clock - Auckland Finalist - Heat 5 runner up Audience Favourite
2013 "Frankie goes to Horrorwood" - Horror - Heat 6 - runner up Audience Favourite
2012 "Brick's Quest" - Fantasy Adventure - Heat 8 - Audience Favourite
2011 "Playin the Game" - Mystery
2010 " Syd's Garage - a study in Autoeroticism" - Musical - Heat 4 - Audience Favourite
2009 "Doggone" - Family Movie (was a doggone waste of time)
2008 "Sounds of Romance" - Romance
2007 "The Grove" - Crime - Auckland finalist, best script award
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Shifty
From: Oamaru
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 872

in reply to Darkhawk:

Nup, this is..

2013 - Nimlin Productions - Full House - Obsessive Relationship Movie
2012 - Nimlin Productions - Hira's Tree - Urban Legend
2011 - Divide That By 9 - No Country For Fake Women - Crime
2010 - Off To The Accountant Films - The Meek Shall Inherit - Twin Movie - Regional Finalist
Reply

filmdog
From: Wellington
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 2

I think teams would still be given the option to deliver on tape, surely?

One thing that no-one has mentioned is the CRAZY render times for outputting H264's at good quality/reasonable file size. Unless you have a quad-core or greater computer, you could be looking at a couple of hours to get your movie out of the computer, and still have it fit on a 16GB USB stick in HD quality!

Mind you, every year it has taken us a couple of hours to get our damn film out to a DV tape, so it's probably the same pain! Damn you Final Cut Pro/Media Composer/Premiere Pro/(insert editing application here)! :-)

2010 Balls & Chain Welly Winner
2009 Extraction
2008 The Chronicles of Long Hung
2007 The Three Little Peggs

Team: Dog Films
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CraigWB
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 261

I've never had any trouble getting my video onto tape personally, the most trouble I've had was that last year the render time taking 1080p down to PAL while rendering the Color grade took a little longer then expected.

Team Spielberg
2014 Race Against the Clock : EIGHT POINT FIVE
2013 Musical : Wolfgang
2012 Horror : The Unrested Soul
2011 One Room (Horror) : Operator -- Audience favourite
2010 Twin Movie : Secrets in Dowsing
2009 M Night Big Twist Film : The Unfinished
2008 Drama : Breakfast at Four
2007 War : Purple Heart
Sakura Productions
2006 Musical : Sardines
2005 Mockumentary : Smuggling for Dummies DQ'ed
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Darkhawk
From: Hamilton
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 195

in reply to filmdog:

One thing that no-one has mentioned is the CRAZY render times for outputting H264's at good quality/reasonable file size

I know what you mean, I did a test run yesterday and it took a minute of render for every second of my test film. That's for 1920x1080 no compression QT export . That's going to add up to a 7 hour render for a 7 minute film on my 2 core duo 4Gb Ram laptop. Might be dropping the quality a bit me thinks, to get a realistic burn time of an hour or two.

Such a pity, going to the trouble to shoot HD then have to compress the crap out of it just to get it to the alter in time. Would be neat if Ant would accept low-res holding files on the sunday with hi-res to follow couple of days later after rendering properly.

But what a headache to compare files to make sure they are identical !

2014 Morgan Horror
2012 Broken Clover The Found Footage Movie
2011 Looking@Love Romantic Comedy
2010 Blood is Thicker than Water The Road Movie
2009 Rockin Chaos Dance
2008 Torched Superhero
2007 Odd Sods Musical
2006 Another Turning Point Coming of age
2005 Friday the 13th Filmaking Fury Mokumentary
2004 The Hand Job Heist
..................................................

AKA Andy, Team Leader of Big Red Fire Truck
Reply

Darkhawk
From: Hamilton
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 195

in reply to Darkhawk:

Here's an idea...

48Hrs writes into the rules that a Low-Res placeholder video can be submitted by the normal Sunday deadline with the final higher-res deadline 3 days later.

Make the Hi-Res file size max 2Gb

48Hrs organisers won't need to cross check between each 2 files from every team, only the team entries that get to the winners circle need vetoing to see if they have modified their Hi-Res render from the original Low Res copy.

All teams will be aware of this (spelled out in the rules) and if there is discrepancies between the two films they will be disqualified and runner up teams all move up a place. This method can be used for audience choice awards too, just need to list your top 5 films you liked in your heat, that should be enough to cover 1st, 2nd, third placings in case some get disqualified after vetoing.

I'ts kinda like shopping for groceries in Hamilton, you have the opportunity to cheat the system (by making your hi-res copy better) but will get burned by the cops after they inspect the video.

What does everyone think about that, comments? Suggestions? flaws? vote DarkHawk for president? :)

2014 Morgan Horror
2012 Broken Clover The Found Footage Movie
2011 Looking@Love Romantic Comedy
2010 Blood is Thicker than Water The Road Movie
2009 Rockin Chaos Dance
2008 Torched Superhero
2007 Odd Sods Musical
2006 Another Turning Point Coming of age
2005 Friday the 13th Filmaking Fury Mokumentary
2004 The Hand Job Heist
..................................................

AKA Andy, Team Leader of Big Red Fire Truck
Reply

mikedensem
From: Christchurch
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 315

in reply to Darkhawk:

It's the hi-res version that I want to hand in, rather than a low-res, so I can avoid transcoding.
Ideally we can hand in a USB drive with a 60GB 10bit uncompressed master!

--------------------
2013 - [boo hoo - didn't participate]
2012 - The Juxtaposition - Action Movie: INFUSION
2011 - Princess Zoe Films - Fad Movie: Contra-fable-gooble 'ness
2010 - Princess Zoe Films (Rubber Tears) - Road Movie: 'Whole Wide World'
2009 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Parallel World: 'Smoke and Mirrors'
2008 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Juvenile Delinquent: 'Lipstick Karma'
2007 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - Grindhouse: 'Grindhouse Day Presents'
2006 - Team 'Rubber Tears' - War/Western: 'An Unruly Patch of Land'
2005 - Team 'Imagic Mushrooms' - Pretentious Art: 'Erar Muidem'
Reply

CraigWB
From: Auckland
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 261

in reply to mikedensem:

Or a 70mm film print with 7.1 surround sound!

Team Spielberg
2014 Race Against the Clock : EIGHT POINT FIVE
2013 Musical : Wolfgang
2012 Horror : The Unrested Soul
2011 One Room (Horror) : Operator -- Audience favourite
2010 Twin Movie : Secrets in Dowsing
2009 M Night Big Twist Film : The Unfinished
2008 Drama : Breakfast at Four
2007 War : Purple Heart
Sakura Productions
2006 Musical : Sardines
2005 Mockumentary : Smuggling for Dummies DQ'ed
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